Need to tap into the vast knowledge base here

Apart from pistols, were WW2 British tank crews issued with any other firearms.
The reason I ask was that I recently saw photo's of a restored Churchill with a Thompson stowed in the turret basket.

Thanks in advance for any assistance

Ian

I've seen equipment storage diagrams for British AFVs and there's almost universally a Thompson or Sten along with ammo somewhere. Hand grenades too. I wouldn't necessarily call these "personal" weapons as they were part of the vehicle's equipment -- much like wrenches and lubrication equipment.

Thanks for the info and swift reply Eric


Ian

THe weapons varied depending on the Vehicle and its origin. Most US vehicles shipped with 2-4 thompsons as part of the CES (Complete Equipment Schedule) and to most extents they were issued with the vehicle. British Vehicles such as the Churchill were usually issued two british Stens to supplement the Bren and revolvers carried by the crew.
US supplied vehicles for the NWE campaign had the thompsons replaced (Stens) in general (not universally) and these were then issued to the Commandos and SF forces.
The Vehicles (US) supplied at the very end of the war in Italy apprantly came with 4 M3 Thompsons and a pic of Brit infantry riding an M4 105 shows a few of these being carried by the infantry!
CHeers
AL

Thanks Al

Most imformative , I intend doing a dio for the Normandy campaign showing a dismounted Churchill crew doing maintainence and one crew member cleaning weapons, I may even attempt a scratchbuilt Besa therefore I needed to clarify what was carried

Ian

Well a common theme with soldiers everywhere, is somehow getting what they need, even if it isnt issued to them. Pictures all over the internet show soldiers with equipment you would never thing they would be given (such as too many grenades to carry, privates carrying flare or grenade pistols...). So I could imagine a British tank crew somewhere carrying just about any SMG you can imagine, as long as it was effective and small enough to be useful to them.

Ian, I have a feeling the standard issue was Stens due to the confined space. Having said that "squaddies will be squaddies" and steal anything that's not bolted down so Thompsons are a possibility due to the Stens unpredicatable behaviour.

Hey Karl: If you note Al's post above, lend lease equipment had the Thompsons as part of the delivered goods. Each vehicle came fully complete, including small arms.

See if you can find the Stowage Diagrams for a Churchill as it will give you the info you need. Trevor Ellistons book "The Killing Ground" (about NWE Churchills) mentions revolvers and the dimounted crew carrying the vehicles issued Bren (AA). He does not mention Stens although I'm sure they were carried with at least one present. The Thompson was in great demand for the Commado regts in NWE so I would severly doubt its presence in most Brit Armd Regts regrdless of Vehicle origin. The possible exception being the relocated 4 and 8 AB from the Med who may have brought them with them as personal weapons. Most pics of Brit crews show revolvers and Stens in NWE. The thompson was widely used in Italy by the brits as an infantry weapon and AFV crews using LL vehicles.

Thanks once again everyone

Ive got a few DML stens in the spare box so will probably go with a few of those


Ian

Ian, if you run short mail me as I have a pile of Stens and Thompsons in the stash which are doing nothing.

Cheers Karl ,a most kind offer but i think I should have enough

Ian

Ian,

just found this post. in the 'Cromwell tank, Vehicle history and Specifications' ISBN 0 11 290403 3 from HMSO (I know it's not a Chrchill)
The turret cutaway shows a Thompson and a Bren as issued small arms. It also describes how to field strip and clean a Besa both co-axial and hull mounts.

HTH

Cheers

Craig

Thompsons, Brens, BESAs and Webleys , supplying SAA to tank units must have brought a smile to the QMS's face

Hey I got a few Brens going spare too :-) , I didnt realise that tanks would have carried a Bren as well , yes I have seen photos of different British tanks with Brens but i thought they had been "aquired" along the way :-) :-)

With regards a Besa, Im looking at different photos as we speak to see if i can use somthing from the spares box such as a GMP, Bren etc for at least a starter for the breach and trigger assembly to modify into a Besa

Ian

The Tamiya Marder IIIM has a spare ZB whatever the Czech original was. There's one on each suspension sprue.

Thanks David

I can see a "wanted " post coming up :-)

Ian

Ken Tout in one of his excellent books about his service in Normandy mentions the fact that the US Navy landing craft crew on being shown the sten guns they were equiped with donated ken & his crew a Thompson .Hope this helps Pat

Hi Ian,

As far as Churchills go I can help you having served in them during WW II.
Additional the a Bren Gun, two Tommmy Guns were aboard, the latter being the personal weapons of the gunner and co-driver. Commanders had a a revolver in a belt mounted holster; the driver and operator the same but mounted in a leg holster.

Thank goodness I never had to use mine (I was an operator) - in target practise couldn't hit at thing!

Hope this information is of help.

Cheers, Gerry

Cheers Gerry

Most helpfull , Ive got a dio in mind based on a Photo I found in the IWM collection showing a Churchill crew at rest cleaning one of the Besa's , I was thinking that whilst doing this it may have been appropriate that the other stowed weapons would recieve the same attention so wanted to add a Thompson or two

Ian

Hi Ian,

Is the photo you have by any chance is of "Donegal"?

HI Gerry

Its the Churchill called "Briton" which fortunately the Tamiya kit comes with these markings

Ive just tried to check the IWM to get more precise details but the site appears down right now


Ian

I believe this is the image in question, do a search under Churchill tank and it comes up on the first page:

Cheers
Al

Thanks Al

Thats the very photo


Ian