Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
My new T-55 has arrived!
GunTruck
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 08:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

really looks good, I will have to try the pastels in water suspension to see how it comes out...I mainly use dry pastels and then overcoat with clear flat. Any technique hints?



Well, lets see...

Using this technique, I can go straight to weathering without having to seal the model in gloss or dull coats. I use Tamiya Acrylics, and let them dry overnight before applying this technique - only because I don't have a lot of time to sit at my workbench anymore. You could move a little faster.

The water doesn't hurt the dried Tamiya Acrylics - so no need to protect the paint job.

I use a little plastic Shot Glass to hold my water - that's all the water you'll need to do the entire T-55 model. It is very easy to control the amount of "deposit" you want to leave on the model by varying the amount of water you're using with the pastels. I scrape the colors I want to use into a little plastic cap or tub and then add water until the consistency is something like mud.

From here, I like the use a #1 flat point brush to apply the mixture. I dip the brush into the pastel sludge, and then dip the whole brush into the water, before applying it to the model. It always looks a lot messier than it will dry, so don't be afraid of it. The water will carry it into the nooks and crannies, depositing the pastels as it evaporates.

There is NO odor when doing this too - which is great. Also, when dry - they stay put - no need to overspray unless you're handing the model a lot.

Varying the colors of pastels you use will change the tones you get when the area dries. I like to mix up a large batch of the basic color I'm using - unless I'm going for a "patchwork" appearance.

I like using the pastels because of the range of colors and textures you can acheive and keep a scale appearance. This is an easy way to apply them.

Gunnie
sniper
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 11:20 AM UTC

Looking good Gunnie.

That's great advise about the pastels in water. Doing it this way, there is no chance of wrecking your paint finish. And if the results are not what you wanted you can just wash it off and start over.

One other thing people can try is to put a coat of dry pastels onto the surface ot the model then, using water from a plant mister, spray lightly over the top of the model. This will cause the pastels to run and the effect will be that of rain on a dusty vehicle.

I think the fewer flat or gloss coats, the better your finish will be in the end.

Steve
GunTruck
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 04:10 PM UTC
Sniper Steve - my last update post for this weekend. I have to let the model sit and dry



The underside of the hull, with road wheels in place. I used Liquetex Acrylic Light Modeling Paste (a medium texture gel) mixed with pastel chalks for the "mud" underneath the fenders. This is nice stuff, and if you stipple it on, it'll leave a subtle texture that accepts drybrushing nicely - if you wish to do that.



The Sprocket and Idler Wheels. I wanted to model a well-used T-55, so the Raw Umber/Silver oils work well here to help convey a metallic look to these parts. They look pretty good on the model in the dark recesses under the fenders...



The turret and hull drying. This is a stopping point for me this weekend. Over next week I'll set the track sag and bring the two subassemblies together for some paint wear treatments.





Two views of the turret almost dry. It dries fairly fast, but not so fast that you don't have time to work areas and remove unwanted deposits.

How are you progressing on your T-55 model?

Gunnie
Jacques
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 02:49 AM UTC
Damn Gunnie, that is some great finish/weathering work. I will have to give the "Wet" pastels a try...I work mainly with dry pastels, and flat overcoats.

Finished the T-72BM, will try to post, in another topic, when I get the pics up.
sniper
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 04:18 AM UTC
Gunnie,

If you are planning to use a flat coat to seal your weathering, how much of your pastel effect to you expect to dissapear under it?

In the past, I have had the subtle effects completely vanish after a (light) coat of Model Master clear flat.

I was thinking of seeing if my Pollyscale flat through the airbrush might help keep some of the detail.

This has been a major problem for me lately.

Steve

PS - I chipped up the rubber of my road wheels and the effect looks nice.
GunTruck
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 04:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gunnie,

If you are planning to use a flat coat to seal your weathering, how much of your pastel effect to you expect to dissapear under it?

In the past, I have had the subtle effects completely vanish after a (light) coat of Model Master clear flat.

I was thinking of seeing if my Pollyscale flat through the airbrush might help keep some of the detail.

This has been a major problem for me lately.

Steve

PS - I chipped up the rubber of my road wheels and the effect looks nice.



I don't think I'll lose any pastels at all when I seal everything up in the end. I was able to drybrush oils onto the tracks, idlers, and sprockets without picking up any pastels onto the brush. I'll definitely let you know though - since I'm posting here at each stage. Might even get there by this weekend...

Gunnie
Cob
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 06:40 AM UTC
Hey Gunnie,
I can't get over how realistic the pastels make it look. I have one comment, the fuel lines you added look great... but they don't seem go anywhere. From the pictures I've seen , the supply and return enter the hull on the right side of the engine deck by the middle fuel tank. Not being critical, just looking for clarification. Do the fuel lines enter the engine compartment in some other place?

v/r,
Cob
GunTruck
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 08:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey Gunnie,
I can't get over how realistic the pastels make it look. I have one comment, the fuel lines you added look great... but they don't seem go anywhere. From the pictures I've seen , the supply and return enter the hull on the right side of the engine deck by the middle fuel tank. Not being critical, just looking for clarification. Do the fuel lines enter the engine compartment in some other place?

v/r,
Cob



You're correct. I made them to connect alongside the Hull underneath the overhang for the Turret. They do connect alongside the Engine Compartment - and I haven't added that detail piece to my model yet.

Thanks for asking though - I don't always add little pieces like that while in the process of weathering. They'll get damaged...

Gunnie
blaster76
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Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 07:35 PM UTC
You sure did an outstandng job. was real impressed with the way you weathered those sprockets. Sure glad i ain't competing with you in any model contests
blaster76
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Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 07:39 PM UTC
I thought of something else you could do for realism. I always bend up fenders, lord we cranged our tanks in the motor pool all the time and if we didn't keep a couple of spare sets in the shed for inspections we'ld of been raked over the coals by the Col. That and I would chunk up the road wheels. That rubber wouldn't stay perfect for very long in that terrain
GunTruck
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Posted: Friday, March 14, 2003 - 06:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I thought of something else you could do for realism. I always bend up fenders, lord we cranged our tanks in the motor pool all the time and if we didn't keep a couple of spare sets in the shed for inspections we'ld of been raked over the coals by the Col. That and I would chunk up the road wheels. That rubber wouldn't stay perfect for very long in that terrain



Thanks for the suggestions - but - I'm not building my model to exhibit that kind of wear and tear. I've had fortune to meet and talk with a former T-55 tank commander who recently visited here. His insights to how these tanks were used in training and combat situations helped me out a lot, and I decided from the outset against beating this model up.

Others are free to model it the way they desire!

Gunnie
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Posted: Friday, March 14, 2003 - 06:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Thanks for the suggestions - but - I'm not building my model to exhibit that kind of wear and tear. I've had fortune to meet and talk with a former T-55 tank commander who recently visited here. His insights to how these tanks were used in training and combat situations helped me out a lot, and I decided from the outset against beating this model up.




Gunnie,

Please share your insights.

I too have not beaten up my kit - but am weathering it heavily. I think there is a difference between the two.

Not that I don't like the dents and dings. I am only going by limited reference photos and haven't seen that kind of damage on what I am trying to model.

I hope to have some photos soon as I am happy with my results so far.

I still need to make the tow cables, add a couple of pieces of spare track, and assemble my Modelkasten tracks when they arrive (hopefully in a week or so). Am planning on a simple groundwork base that I may be able to get to this weekend.

Steve
GunTruck
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Posted: Friday, March 14, 2003 - 08:02 AM UTC
He related that the supplies and material for training was always short - and that frontline equipment was not taken out and used daily. They didn't have the luxury of taking their tanks out of the barns to beat them up during training regularly. Mostly, they were sheltered to be ready for war, and the crews trained on lesser equipment - like T62 or T72 crews would ride out and train on the older T55/54 - and so on.

Naturally, a tank gets pretty filthy - even when you only take it out once a month - like he told me was customary (even more so for the newer vehicles like T72), but the vehicles were maintained in good condition and kept in as good condition as resources would permit. Just like US vehicles, damaged and unserviceable parts were repaired or replaced when returned.

If you're modeling a vehicle in the middle of a combat deployment - that's one thing - but if you're not modeling that kind of scene...

Soviet Tankers were just as proud of their machines as US Tankers were. The satellite bloc tankers weren't as well trained or as well supplied - but the principle remained the same. The frontline equipment was kept sheltered most of the time, and training was conducted with older and lesser vehicles, with props, notes, and tags to mimic controls in the "real" vehicles. They were occassionally taken out, started up, driven around their paces, and put back into the barn again after being cleaned up.

I'd envision that it was more common, when you saw a frontline vehicle, that it was in decent condition - during it's "heyday" of service deployment, and not beat up all to heck like one would expect from combat or extended deployment away from it's depot. He commented that they weren't as pretty as you'd find in a museum collection, but they remained in good condition until superseeded by a newer model.

Gunnie
Tankera1
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Posted: Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 06:33 AM UTC
What a great thread! I am learning so much about pastels and their use, thanks for the tips and the photos which really help in the learning process. The information from the former T-55 tanker got me to thinking though. I wonder if the Soviet block would have been as formadable an opponet as we all thought given that they weren't even training with the equipment that they would fight with. Don't know if it is relavant but it would seem that it could enter into the equation.
cfbush2000
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Posted: Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 01:58 PM UTC
I just got my T55A yesterday and won't be working on it for a while. But I agree, this thread is like a seminar in weathering. I've done some cutting and pasting so I can print out the weathering info and put it with my model for future use. Gunnie, you could just edit this thread and have a great "Building the T55" article.
Thanks to everyone who has posted tips and links here.
This thread is exactly what makes ArmoramA the best modeling site on the web.
Chuck
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Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 03:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

What a great thread! I am learning so much about pastels and their use, thanks for the tips and the photos which really help in the learning process. The information from the former T-55 tanker got me to thinking though. I wonder if the Soviet block would have been as formadable an opponet as we all thought given that they weren't even training with the equipment that they would fight with. Don't know if it is relavant but it would seem that it could enter into the equation.



It does cause you to take a pause - doesn't it? I got the distinct impression from him that with their supply and spare parts situation - facing war - they would have left the gate "balls to the walls" and thrown in everything they could muster in a savage strike. Hoping, that the fierce strike would back us up on our heels - and perhaps give time for desparately needed resupply.

Gunnie
GunTruck
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Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 03:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I just got my T55A yesterday and won't be working on it for a while. But I agree, this thread is like a seminar in weathering. I've done some cutting and pasting so I can print out the weathering info and put it with my model for future use. Gunnie, you could just edit this thread and have a great "Building the T55" article.
Thanks to everyone who has posted tips and links here.
This thread is exactly what makes ArmoramA the best modeling site on the web.
Chuck



Hmmm - excellent suggestion! Thank you for the encouragement!

Gunnie
GunTruck
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Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 04:03 PM UTC
Okay Steve - here's my third weekly installment. I'm home-stretchin' it now - just fine tuning and adding small details to wrap things up...



The Mantlet Cover was worked with some oils to accentuate the folds and creases - without going overboard and creating a stark contrast. I used 5% Greenish Umber mixed in with 30% Raw Sienna and 65% Zinc White. I do this by eyeball to mix a slightly lighter shade of the base paint coat I applied when I airbrushed the model. I let the oils sit a day, and then used some of the dirty water I have set aside for working the pastel/water weathering. I coated the Mantlet Cover with this water. The effect again is really subtle, you can barely see it even in strong light, but it ties the Mantlet in with the rest of the weathering on the model.



To begin the next stage of weathering, I mix together a near-50/50 color made from Silver and Raw Umber oils. This allows me to "scrape" the paint down to bare metal without applying straight silver - which is way too brilliant for my tastes. The photo shows the initial stages of this weathering - in high-traffic areas where crew and gear normally gets tossed. Light striking the model at different angles catches these spots of wear. If you try it and find it too much - just go back over the offending area with a weak pastel/water solution - it'll come out nicely.



The areas of worn paint are done with Humbrol #27004 Metallic enamel paint. I usually use Tamiya Acrylic XF-69 NATO Black for this step - but I ran outta that. The Humbrol stepped in nicely. It's applied randomly and in areas were the tank would be scraped by the crew and elements. Same as above, if you make a mistake and go too heavy - use a weak pastel/water solution and things will come out nicely.



Now to induce the track sag:



My simple solution to this problem is shown in the following photos. Tamiya's track is malleable enough that you can set it into place by using 5-minute epoxy and a handful of #11 X-Acto knife blade handles.



I started by fixing the upper track run to the #3 and #4 road wheels - inserting the X-Acto handle underneath the fender to press the track down and contact the road wheel. Just so happens that the #11 knife blade handle fits perfectly.





Setting the track sag over the #2 and #5 road wheels came next - and completed the task. Any excess epoxy you might have can be dull coated or oversprayed with your normal track/lower hull treatment. I had no excess epoxy, I used pretty small dots. The end result is pleasant - and really alleviates the need to spend a lot of money on aftermarket tracks.





Now, the rest of the work on the model is devoted to attaching the smaller details and gear. I'm working on my Commander Figure "Vladimir" this week so that I can add him too. I'm hoping to wrap this T-55 up within a week or two...



Hope you like it!

Gunnie
sniper
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Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 04:33 PM UTC

Lookin' good dude!

Hey, couple questions.

First, I hope to get hold of the digital camera Tuesday. Would it be possible for me to email you a couple shots and then have you post them for me to the thread?

I'm almost finished with my kit too (almost exactly where you are minus the tracks which have yet to arrive) and am really pretty pleased with it. Slightly more weathered than yours.

Second, I was wondering if you would be interested in a construction article. My thought is this; I have never seen an article where two people detail the steps to completion on the same kit. If you see my photos and think my efforts worthy, I'm wondering if this might be a cool idea. We could both say what we did to arrive at the finished product. I don't have photos under construction though.

Mine has been quite a journey and I think it would be intersting to do an article that compares/contrasts two kits built mostly OOB.

If its a dumb idea, no problem. And, I don't care about credit for it or anything. Just think it might be fun to do.

Again, love what you have done with the kit. A few things I wish I had done different during construction.

Steve

GunTruck
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Posted: Monday, March 17, 2003 - 03:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Lookin' good dude!

Hey, couple questions.

First, I hope to get hold of the digital camera Tuesday. Would it be possible for me to email you a couple shots and then have you post them for me to the thread?



Sure - send them to me and I'll post them for you!


Quoted Text

I'm almost finished with my kit too (almost exactly where you are minus the tracks which have yet to arrive) and am really pretty pleased with it. Slightly more weathered than yours.

Second, I was wondering if you would be interested in a construction article. My thought is this; I have never seen an article where two people detail the steps to completion on the same kit. If you see my photos and think my efforts worthy, I'm wondering if this might be a cool idea. We could both say what we did to arrive at the finished product. I don't have photos under construction though.

Mine has been quite a journey and I think it would be intersting to do an article that compares/contrasts two kits built mostly OOB.



Again, sure thing, I think I could easily put together a "tag-team" Feature Article for the site on building the T-55. Those are rare - I think it would be an interesting addition to Armorama. If you don't have construction photos, your notes will do fine. I believe I can flesh out the text and use mine to illustrate points and keep it flowing smoothly.

Gunnie
Tiger101
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Posted: Monday, March 17, 2003 - 03:39 AM UTC
Fantastic job guntruck. just the right amount of weathering. How did the fuel line connection go. I'm curious .... I have three to do and yours really got me thinking. If you could post a picture of the final connection I would really be in your debt.

thanks Scott
GunTruck
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Posted: Monday, March 17, 2003 - 04:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Fantastic job guntruck. just the right amount of weathering. How did the fuel line connection go. I'm curious .... I have three to do and yours really got me thinking. If you could post a picture of the final connection I would really be in your debt.

thanks Scott



Thank you! I'll be sure to post that photo before ending this adventure. I did you one better and went to the local armor collection on Saturday - and climbed up onto the T-55 there to view the area. A buddy took a photo of the fuel line entering the engine deck area for me. If I get it from him in time - I'll post it too to supplement my model detail.

There are some modelers who'll tell you not to trust another modeler's work as reference

If I don't get it in time for this thread - then I will have it when Sniper Steve and I put together the "Building the T-55" feature article he proposed for this site.

Gunnie
Cob
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Posted: Monday, March 17, 2003 - 06:50 AM UTC
Has anyone used an M.V. lens on their T-55. If so, what size fits?
v/r,
Cob
sniper
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Posted: Monday, March 17, 2003 - 07:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Has anyone used an M.V. lens on their T-55. If so, what size fits?
v/r,
Cob



Good question. I'm making/faking a lens with some Future...

Steve
GunTruck
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Posted: Monday, March 17, 2003 - 07:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Has anyone used an M.V. lens on their T-55. If so, what size fits?
v/r,
Cob



Good question. I'm making/faking a lens with some Future...

Steve



I believe I used #LS116 for my headlight. When I go home, I'll check my notes.

Gunnie