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What happened to British Shermans after WW2?
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:53 PM UTC
The British military used plenty of Sherman tanks during WW2, but as far as I know they were never used afterward, at least not in wartime, though ironically enough they used Universal Carriers for some applications during the Korean War despite their obsolescent design even during WW2. So where did they all go?
grimreaper
Joined: April 11, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:01 AM UTC
I heard they melted them down and used the steel to make teapots. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Just joking.
Good question though. How about the Russians, too?
Alot of lend-lease Shermans were around at wars end.
Where'd they all end up?
Just joking.
Good question though. How about the Russians, too?
Alot of lend-lease Shermans were around at wars end.
Where'd they all end up?
loudYANK
Joined: January 08, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:12 AM UTC
Most likely sold to other countries or melted down/scrapped, I even heard that some of the older Allied tanks were dumped in the ocean...don't know if that is completely true.
-Yank-
-Yank-
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:33 AM UTC
My Osprey book on the M60 Pattons does mention that the US did take a number of its obsolete Pattons, clean them out and seal them shut, and put them into the oceans near the shoreline as artificial reefs as part of their REEF-EX program.
Charlie-66
#186
Joined: May 24, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:37 AM UTC
It seems a lot of WW II equipment ended up in Israel. That obviously wouldn't account for all the Shermans in British service, but it is one possibility.
Mark70
Joined: September 29, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:51 AM UTC
The one used by Commonwealth forces in Italy remained here, they were refurbished and was the backbone of the new republican italian army until the arrival of the Patton tank in the '50s, later they were used as target on firing-grounds until their consumption.
My father, who served in the army in 1961-62, remember a lot of them, scrapped in the depots of the tank school at Caserta and most of them where patchworks of different versions....
About the soviet Shermans I read that they were transformed in tractors...
My father, who served in the army in 1961-62, remember a lot of them, scrapped in the depots of the tank school at Caserta and most of them where patchworks of different versions....
About the soviet Shermans I read that they were transformed in tractors...
grimreaper
Joined: April 11, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 01:05 AM UTC
About the soviet Shermans I read that they were transformed in tractors...
That sounds reasonable.
I don't think they waste anything...they were recycling long before it became popular.
That sounds reasonable.
I don't think they waste anything...they were recycling long before it became popular.
Mark70
Joined: September 29, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 01:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
About the soviet Shermans I read that they were transformed in tractors...
That sounds reasonable.
I don't think they waste anything...they were recycling long before it became popular.
Even if it is OT i think this is interesting: I found it on www.battlefield.ru and tells about the interesting story of Shermans transformed in tractors !!!
"...The tractors were equipped with motorised winch. Most of those tractors were distributed to the repairing rail trains of the Northern Caucasus and Ukraine where they did use till the end 60th. Some vehicles could be found in Ukraine even in 80th, while Morozovskaya rail station (Northern Caucasus) possessed one Sherman used until 1996!
According to some sources, in the Russian Federation there is a pair of Sherman tractors still remains in running condition. In 1989, one of them were added to the museum of the Northern Air Forces. It was presented by one of the "Stavropol" rail station of the Northern Caucasus Railway, on which it was used before. By the way, the "Stavropol" had another three Sherman tractors. The last was removed from service in 1995.
In November 1997, the Sherman of the Morozovskaya rail station was gifted to the Central Museum of the Armed Forces in Moscow. The museum now plans repair it and restore to the original Sherman tank (with turret). "
here are some photos:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2916/sherman17ru6.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1899/sherman18et6.jpg
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 01:50 AM UTC
I recall in Dmitry Loza's book "Commanding the Red Army's Shermans" that his crews were flabergasted at war's end to learn that the Americans were taking back their M4A2s and other Lend Lease equipment (like P-39s and P-63s) only to dump them in the ocean once far enough out. Upon learning of this, suddenly many of the previous unit's inventories all of a sudden reported 100% disabled or damaged -- then they were stored away. Smart move by the Russians -- understandable move by the USA as well.
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 02:28 AM UTC
Most Commonwealth Shermans (but not all) were supplied under the terms of Lend Lease. With the war over and New British designs such as the Comet and Cent available there was little incentive to maintain expensive leasing of equipment they no longer needed or could afford.
Under the lend lease terms the equipment was returned. A lot of the ex C'wealth stock was refurbished and issued to the European nations under the US Military Aid Program where the US essentailly rearmed Western Europe in the vacuum after WW2. Eventually the Europeans got back on their feet and reequipped themselves but for most of the 40's 50's and even the 60's the MAP supplied stuff served.
A lot of the French Shermans eventually were passed on to Isreal as were West German M48!
CHeers
Al
Under the lend lease terms the equipment was returned. A lot of the ex C'wealth stock was refurbished and issued to the European nations under the US Military Aid Program where the US essentailly rearmed Western Europe in the vacuum after WW2. Eventually the Europeans got back on their feet and reequipped themselves but for most of the 40's 50's and even the 60's the MAP supplied stuff served.
A lot of the French Shermans eventually were passed on to Isreal as were West German M48!
CHeers
Al
Mark70
Joined: September 29, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 02:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The one used by Commonwealth forces in Italy remained here, they were refurbished and was the backbone of the new republican italian army until the arrival of the Patton tank in the '50s, later they were used as target on firing-grounds until their consumption.
My father, who served in the army in 1961-62, remember a lot of them, scrapped in the depots of the tank school at Caserta and most of them where patchworks of different versions....
Here are some pictures of Sherman Firefly Ex-Commonwealth used by the "Ariete " armoured division in the early '50s...
here other pics of a different version used by an unknown unit in the same period...
as you can see italian army in the early '50s used almost every version of Sherman ...
Johnston_RCR
Joined: April 01, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 03:30 AM UTC
At least some also went to museums around the world. Here in Kingston we have 2 or 3 sitting around the base, and we aren't an armoured center. We have the Royal Military College, and the Communications/Signals reserve. I imagine armour centred bases have more laying around, as well as the Royal Military museum and various other war museums.
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 04:04 AM UTC
If the addresses were meant to be links, Marco, they didn't work. But I can cut and paste if need be. Thanks.
And by the way, what color were they, postwar olive green or something else?
And by the way, what color were they, postwar olive green or something else?
Mark70
Joined: September 29, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 05:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If the addresses were meant to be links, Marco, they didn't work. But I can cut and paste if need be. Thanks.
And by the way, what color were they, postwar olive green or something else?
Hi, i edited my message, you should see the pictures now
About the color after Italy joined NATO in 1949,all military vehicles have been painted in regular NATO Olive green,so i think that these Sherman didnt make exception.
erichvon
Joined: January 17, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 06:04 AM UTC
It wouldn't surprise me if some ended up as range targets. I remember seeing a T34 as a range target at Warcop in the 1980's. Tracer looks great when it hits it...LOL. I just had to shoot at it but sadly I wasn't AT.. I know the Jagdpanther thats zipping about the UK was a range target. Well it was two and was rebuilt from the remains. The Schmalturm remains at Bovington are all that was left of a range target. Tragic end to a piece of history 
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 06:37 AM UTC
Under the terms of Lend-Lease, the tanks had to either be returned or paid for at the conclusion of the war. The British equipment was ostensibly returned to US control, but was obviously passed on to re-equip our newer Allies, as the US had no need for it. As mentioned, Stalin had no intention of paying for his used Shermans, but saw no reason to let the US dump them in the ocean, so he abrogated the agreement and recycled the tanks as tractors.
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 07:16 AM UTC
Thanks for the pictures, they are great! 
But I cannot read any markings. Is it just me, or were they perhaps deliberately censored out for security reasons?
But I cannot read any markings. Is it just me, or were they perhaps deliberately censored out for security reasons?
gbkirsch
Joined: June 04, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Here are some pictures of Sherman Firefly Ex-Commonwealth used by the "Ariete " armoured division in the early '50s...
Thanks for the pics Marco. Really a cool bunch of guys don't you think? No doubt wearing some Panerai watches as well!!!
Gary
Drader
Joined: July 20, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 02:29 PM UTC
At least some of the M4 (105)s used by the British Army in Italy ended up with the Israeli Defence Forces. Some of their very early re-militarised tanks with Krupp guns have the characteristic stowage box on the final drive.
David
David
acav
Joined: May 09, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 12:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The British military used plenty of Sherman tanks during WW2, but as far as I know they were never used afterward, at least not in wartime, though ironically enough they used Universal Carriers for some applications during the Korean War despite their obsolescent design even during WW2. So where did they all go?
This website, Shermans into Ploughshares has some interesting information on the post WW2 employment of the Sherman (and other tanks)
The UK engineering firm Vickers used Sherman components in the SherVick tractor, which was intended for agricultural use in the 'colonies' (specifically in Africa IIRC) post-war, but the retreat from Empire and decolonisation became more fashionable and I'm not sure if they were ever manufactured in any great numbers.
Whatever the result of that project, it would imply that there were a great number of Shermans which were not returned to US hands or passed on as war surplus to burgeoning nations...
$0.02
acav out
Scottosaurus
Joined: February 15, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 01:07 AM UTC
Hi:
A former member of the Ontario Regiment told me that their Shermans were loaded about LCTs after the war, sailed out into the North Sea, and dumped off the front ramps of the LCTs. It sounds like at least some of the members of the regiment weren't happy to see their mounts suffer that fate.
Cheers,
Scott
A former member of the Ontario Regiment told me that their Shermans were loaded about LCTs after the war, sailed out into the North Sea, and dumped off the front ramps of the LCTs. It sounds like at least some of the members of the regiment weren't happy to see their mounts suffer that fate.
Cheers,
Scott
goose
Joined: April 09, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 03:03 AM UTC
By the end of the War the Sherman was pretty much an outdated tank.
Designs like the Comet, Centurian where available which were much superior to the Sherman.
Designs like the Comet, Centurian where available which were much superior to the Sherman.
blackhand
Joined: July 13, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 03:47 AM UTC
Both India & Pakistan ended up with shermans post war some of which had been modified as DD tanks .some specialist vehicles were kept such as beach recovery vehicles which soldiered on until the 60s in british service .Sherman Firefies ended up in Argentina & the Lebanon .,I think that extensively modified vehicles couldn't be returned & were paid for from gold reserves.thanks for raising the issue some great subjects for post war models
melon
Joined: November 21, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 03:58 AM UTC
Cavalry
Joined: October 30, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 09:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Absolutely beautiful!
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