Armorama :: D-Day armor

Campaigns
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.

Hosted by Darren Baker, Richard S.

D-Day armor

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Gents,

All signed up & enlisted, now I just need to find some photos of churchill III Avre or maybe do a panther a of hitlerjugend or did they only get their panzer IV's their by d+3?

Cheers Mike

Mike,

The 12th had panthers on june 8th:

Quoted Text

A company of Panther tanks finally appeared on June 8, and Meyer personally led a night attack toward the village of Rots, which they reached at midnight. After several hours of confused fighting, however, the Germans were forced to withdraw, leaving behind six tanks. The Canadians noted that despite advancing with courage and determination, the young Germans seemed to lack tactical control and had a habit of attacking piecemeal, failing to exploit favorable opportunities.

You'll find more info here: http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-12th-ss-hitlerjugend-panzer-division-fought-in-normandy.htm

Don't know which version though, that's something you find out. :-)

Dave

Tanksami

Victoria, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2011
KitMaker: 1,314 posts
Armorama: 1,217 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:24 AM UTC

Hi Dave,

Thanks for that I will have a nosey!! Tossing up between that & a Churchill never finished anything British so that could be other option

Cheers Mike

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Dave,

Thanks for that I will have a nosey!! Tossing up between that & a Churchill never finished anything British so that could be other option

Cheers Mike

There are pictures of an AVRE Mk III in Normandy, just do a google search and you'll find a few.

So, you can go either way. Or both.

Or add some after market on your AVRE, like wading gear.

Cheers,

Dave

Tanksami

Victoria, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2011
KitMaker: 1,314 posts
Armorama: 1,217 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:59 AM UTC

Thanks Dave,

Just to be clear if I find a photo I can match the tank too, do the soliders also have to be doing what they are in the photo??

Mike

BBD468

Texas, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
Armorama: 2,383 posts

PROFILE

WWW

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 12:00 PM UTC

Hey Dave,

Im enlisted my friend! wont be able to start till late this year or next year. But it will give me time to TRY and find some 1/48 wadeing goodies.

Gary

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 12:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Dave,

Just to be clear if I find a photo I can match the tank too, do the soliders also have to be doing what they are in the photo??

Mike

Hey Mike,

It not about modelling a photo, so the soldiers dont have to do what's on the photo.

same goes for stowage and the lot.

You don't actually need a photo, you just have to be able to document that the model your building was in action around dday, all means are good for this.

Like for example the text I quoted from the 12th SS proofs there were panthers around. Let's say, you find somewhere else that those panthers were A and D - just saying - then you can build a panther A from the 12th SS, which will qualify.

You can of course model a photo, but it's absolutely not a must just do what's the most fun for you.

Gary,

Looking forward to your wading gear.

Dave

PantherF

Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:10 PM UTC

Well, after looking at several artillery casemates, turret fortifications and bunkers last night for ideas, I think I need to add to what I am putting together.

It's rather small (even at 1/16 scale) and so it needs some more to go with it like a machine gun emplacement fixed on an L-Shaped board.

Just a thought. This will also need some natural looking landscaping too to carry off the "real look".

~ Jeff

ALBOWIE

New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have a Italeri Marine Sherman that would fit into this Campaign perfectly, BUT ...

... it must start NEXT year for I have way too much on my plate right now.

Sorry.

~ Jeff

Sorry to say that a late M4A3 or M4A2 with the 47 deg hull is to late for D Day. The 47 Deg M4A3's didn't appear in the ETO until late August at the earliest and probably Mid Sep before issue.
Cheers
Al

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:28 PM UTC

Jeff,

If you would need pictures of Normandy or the Atlantic wall in general, let me know, since I have thousands.

You can also take a look at my site, most are published there.

There's nothing I like to do more then a battlefield trip and Normandy is my favorite battlefield - I go there every year.

Dave

Tanksami

Victoria, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2011
KitMaker: 1,314 posts
Armorama: 1,217 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:37 PM UTC

Dave,

Thanks for clearing that up for me I just wasn't sure how historical I was having to try & be.

Mike

PantherF

Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Quoted Text

I have a Italeri Marine Sherman that would fit into this Campaign perfectly, BUT ...

... it must start NEXT year for I have way too much on my plate right now.

Sorry.

~ Jeff

Sorry to say that a late M4A3 or M4A2 with the 47 deg hull is to late for D Day. The 47 Deg M4A3's didn't appear in the ETO until late August at the earliest and probably Mid Sep before issue.
Cheers
Al

Al ... what can I say? At the time discussions were being held I did not know this was going to be a FACTUAL CAMPAIGN and I did have every intent to modify the kit somewhat to make it work, but not as far as re-working the hull.

Now I have switched gears (if you had read the whole thread) and gave up the Sherman idea and will build this 1/16 KIRIN Renault Turret Bunker I have instead.

Please, no more Sherman tid-bits guys. Everyone get busy with their own projects as I know more than enough that you cannot imagine. I have built 3 1/16th RC Shermans alone as well as 1/35th versions too.

Thanks anyway.

~ Jeff

PantherF

Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Jeff,

If you would need pictures of Normandy or the Atlantic wall in general, let me know, since I have thousands.

You can also take a look at my site, most are published there.

There's nothing I like to do more then a battlefield trip and Normandy is my favorite battlefield - I go there every year.

Dave

Thanks Dave!

Do you have anything with the Renault turret and a machine gun bunker/fortification side-by-side? I want to extend or expand this a little but don't want to just make something up. I realize it's not based on a photo but want it as close to the real thing as possible.

If not, I may just build up the landscape to include a hill or a small mound of rock or earth with dead grass and ruble along side.

These are my thoughts right now. A lot easier than checking the angle on the hull.

~ Jeff

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 12:36 AM UTC

Jeff,

I think I have something at home that you could use. I definitely have pictures of the Renault turret in the bateaux museum.

Let me check tonight and I'll mail you some things that might be usefull.just Pm me your email.

Dave

ltb073

New York, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 3,662 posts
Armorama: 3,078 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 12:53 AM UTC

Dave, Nice banner

would this photo satisfies my documentation

The caption said it was taken on 12 June 1944 at Caumont and that it is from the 2nd SS Panzer Division. So I would say that the Pumas were present during the battle

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 01:10 AM UTC

Hey Sal,

Thanks for your comments on the banner, it's growing on me.

Concerning the photo, there must be something wrong with the caption, since the 2nd ss didn't arrive before the 17th... The battle for caumont however was around the 12th, so the puma is probably of the 2nd panzer.

Probably the 21st panzer or panzer lehr had pumas, either one of these would be perfect. Maybe the 17th ss had them too.

So, you'll probably save with your puma, you'll just would need to configure it as one of the 21st panzer or panzer lehr.

Dave

PantherF

Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 01:13 AM UTC

I hope everyone agrees with my subject or project I have selected? I do not believe it belongs in the Atlantic Wall Campaign and mine does contain armor. It's just that it's not mobile armor, that's all.

After looking through all those pictures last night I do want to build one with a Panther turret too. An A or a modified D would be great! Those things were flat on the ground and would be perfect for my growing 1/16th ~ 1/18th collection.

~ Jeff

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 01:24 AM UTC

Jeff,

I completely agree with your subject, there were bunkers in Normandy.

The Renault turret will fit the bill, but to my recollection there were no bunkers with panther turrets in Normandy, but feel free to prove me wrong.

So, do make sure your bunker with Renault turret matches a casemate in Normandy. But I'll try to help you out here.

Dave

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 01:31 AM UTC

Sal,

Check out this link for Puma pictures: http://uwemilitaria.org/1-Wheel/Puma/20.html

Quoted Text

Contrary to common misconception, in early hours of D-Day Normandy invasion, German 192th Panzer Regiment - 2nd Panzer Division was able to drive onto Normandy coastline circa 4:00am, secure French town Plumetat, and prevented linked up British and Canadian landings at Sword and Juno beaches.

Seems your puma is a go! :-)

Dave

ltb073

New York, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 3,662 posts
Armorama: 3,078 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 01:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Sal,

Check out this link for Puma pictures: http://uwemilitaria.org/1-Wheel/Puma/20.html

Quoted Text

Contrary to common misconception, in early hours of D-Day Normandy invasion, German 192th Panzer Regiment - 2nd Panzer Division was able to drive onto Normandy coastline circa 4:00am, secure French town Plumetat, and prevented linked up British and Canadian landings at Sword and Juno beaches.

Seems your puma is a go! :-)

Dave

That was the sight I got the photo from

Thanks

PantherF

Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 01:55 AM UTC

Well, the casemate comes molded into the base as part of the turret ring in this kit. I doubt there is a photo that matches it EXACTLY but similar.

I have read that the R35 Stellungs were part of the Utah and Omaha beach defences, but again ... no photos.

So I am pretty much at the mercy of the kit or find something else or just drop out. Dropping out sounds easier as all this is now losing my fun factor in it.

~ Jeff

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 02:02 AM UTC

Jeff,

Your kit is perfect, don't worry about it. It doesn't has to be an exact copy.

I was just saying, don't add a panther turret.

I'm looking forward to your build, I'm sure it's gonna be great!

How will you portray it? Under attack by allied troops? Or just Germans waiting for the storm to come? You've got lots of options here and will build into a fine diorama.

Dave

patton76

West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts

PROFILE

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 02:18 AM UTC

Jeff,

Quoted Text

it is perfectly appropriate to set your R35 stellung in the atlantic wall. R35 stellungs could be find at Omaha (Widerstandneste 61, 68, 72) and Utah beaches (..so Verlinden is not so wrong in displaying them on the normandy campaign )and in many other static defenses of the AW.

I have pictures of the WN on Omaha beach.

Also, WN 5, now the museum on Utah beach had a Renault turret.

If you do a google search with WN xx, you'll find lots of inspiration.

Also take a look here: http://www.bunkers.be

There are pictures and plans of all the WN's mentioned here.

Good luck!

Dave