The pictures posted by James over on the "Inquire M1114 / M1025A2" topic should prove quite helpful. I actually have no idea the terminology for the doors. I haven't been able to keep up to date on the trade journals lately which is where I've gotten much of my information. I think 18Bravo might be able to answer it, but each Frag number was the name given to certain armor packages, such as side armor, underarmor, etc though I forget what number went with each. Frag 5 referred to the doors, so I wouldn't be suprised if Frag 6 is the next package name.

Jeff

Just found some info about Frag Kit 6 armor on defensetech.org :
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003669.html

Frenchy

Jeff and HP
Thanks for starting the dialog about Frag 6. I'm certain we have members here that can shed some light on this new armour system. I had always assumed (that is wrong to do around here I've learned) that the M1151's had the Frag 5 armour. I will hunt down a picture of what I'm referring to and post it for comment.
Best to you gentlemen
Bill

From the above linked article:

"The doors are so heavy, troops may need a mechanical assist device to open and close them ..."

I guess no more 95 pound females need apply.

Further:

'...and drivers will likely require built-in visual references so they'll know if they can fit the vehicle in narrow spaces."

Yeah. The visual reference is called an "up-gunner."

And then there are the responses. The one from DW is priceless. While it would sound as if he knows what he is talking about, he in fact does not. Articles like these are entertaining to say the least. Treat them as such.

Bill, measurements on the way to your mail box.



" If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest of freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms".

Samuel Adams

More Frag 6 door -related 'entertaining' stuff (from defence-update.com this time) :
"As MRAP is about to be fielded in mass, and more protected alternatives are considered for the HMMWV, this veteran vehicle is still operating in large numbers, continuously beefed-up with more armor protection and modifications. Some of the add-ons developed by BAE Systems were on display at MDM [Modern Day Marine Expo / AUSA 2007]. The latest add-on armor applied to the HMMWV has improved side protection by heavier FRAG 5 / FRAG 6 armor kits. Several accessories designed to make life in an up-armored HMMWVs more tolerable were introduced recently [.../...] Another essential accessory is the electrical door assist mechanism, designed to operate the u-armored door weighing over 400 kg (applied with FRAG 6 kit). This mechanism, introduced by BAE System's mobility and protection systems (formerly Armor Holdings) can operate the door on level ground or up to 17 deg slope (30%), opening or closing it within five seconds"

Frenchy

I don't know how I'd feel about an electrical assisted door opener when I'm struggling to get out of a compromised HMMWV? If these doors are getting this heavy wouldn't blow off doors be essential in the case of an emergency?
Bill

The 1151's differ from the 1114's in several areas, including fire suppression, comms, and armor. Most would be easy to do, except for the rear deck, which has been entirely revamped. I know how I can do it, but I'm still trying to find a village that sells A+B putty. (I did find a good JB Weld substitute, after the pipes on our water supply burst)

As for those motorized doors - no one has seen them, nor are we likely to. In fact, if they told us we could have them fitted they'd get the same answer they got when they wanted us to "upgrade" to the motorized turret: No thanks! Our 1151's still run with the lower, manual turret, while our older 1114's run the higher, motorized turret. One has never worked, so I just manually crank it, or undo the clutch and manhandle it with the handles.

A motorized door (4 actually) would:
Add yet more weight;
Be yet something else that can crap out on us;
Possibly be something else to hinder us from una$$ing the vehicle;
Not enhance our mission capability in the slightest.

As rough as the terrain is where we find ourselves, we have never had to park the vehicle on a 30 degree slope. It wouldn't make sense to, because the clutch on the gun slips at that angle (I know this from experience) thus ruining the ring gear, and no 95 pound females in our unit (oh wait, we have none, darn!) are going to be able to slew the turret around at that angle.

Bill, I think I had sent you the armor shots of the 1151's, but since your computer went tango uniform I'll resend you some. It'll take a day or so, as I've been temporarily separated frm my pics once again.


If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest of freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms".

Samuel Adams

18 Bravo
Always good to get the word from the field. You have sent me shots of the 1151 and they might well be home on the computer, some died in the recent lap top. More pictures never hurt though so I'll take what I can get as will all HMMWV fans here.
I'm slow working on the 1114 these days, work seems to interfere with my projects even up here.
Good to hear from as always.
Bill

Found this by accident. An interesting video in its own right, at about the 4 minute mark is a very close up of Frag 5 doors the vents louvres of the M1114 AC unit and some CREWS systems

WARNING: some graphic language (including F-bomb) and obvious violence in the form the usual overkilling suppressive fire by US Soldiers.

Under Fire On Patrol - Baghdad, Iraq

Jeff

Jeff
Thanks for thinking of me. I'll have a look when I get home tomorrow or the next day. Up here the internet is slow slow slow. How'd it go with your presentation and the simulation?
Bill

Well the presentation was sort of a cluster@#%!@. There was quite a number of technology problems and the room was ungodly hot, but it was funny to note that all the professors that came said this was right on par for the history conferences they attend, so I guess that's good practice. The demographic of people that go to these things are students looking for extra credit, so while those that came had interest, it was for the wrong reasons and teaching complicated subjects like IEDs and C-IED was quite a learning experience. Some of your brethren (Canadians) from Toronto came down and gave presentations too and that was interesting. Speaking on the subject itself was a great experience and hearing the keynote speaker from Harvard talk about European warfare in the 18th-19th Century was awesome - though long.

The field exercise never happened, at least for me. We had a bad snowstorm come in the day that I was supposed to drive the 2 hour ride to Mascatatuck Urban Training Center in Butlerville and while that Saturday (the day of the operation) was beautiful weather, the timing played havoc on plans so all of the volunteers were told not to bother going. Oh well, I got a lot of homework done.

Hope everything is going well for you. The video is just a nice humvee reference as well as a really good video of raw journalism in a "firefight"

Jeff

Yeah. It works pretty well against 7.62X54. The guy was a pretty good shot.



If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest of freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms".

Samuel Adams

18 Bravo
Great picture of the Frag 6, it really seems to do the trick though I see penetration to the door armor. I guess the multiple layers slows things down enough? Was all this damage from rifle rounds or was this an IED?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x54R
The doors look as though they'll be a lot easier to fabricate than the Frag 5 ones, can't wait to get home to my bench.
Still pretty close for comfort, take care out there.
Thanks for the image
Bill

Bill those are all bullet holes You can tell because there isn't any damage from shrapnel or burn marks. For so many, 18Bravo you were right that guy was quite a shot! Since you called the shots 7.62x54R would these then be from a Dragonov sniper rifle or from a PK or PKM? Either way thats impressive shooting from insurgents based on my knowledge of their collective accuracy. Stay safe man, and I hope you were able to get that guy from shooting you in the future.

Jeff

Jeff
I guess he shooter thought he had a chance, obviously over estimating his potential, happy to say. Any consensus on what kind of rifle fired those rounds?
Stay safe
Bill

It was a PK, and he won't be doing it again. Ever.

But more to the point: I know your scratchbuilt Bushmaster is going well. How about that Frag 6? Any progress?

18 Bravo
Thanks for asking. When the Mig resin was not usable I was disillusioned a bit and I had to wait for the replacement (that Mig so kindly replaced). I got involved with the Bushmaster and to make a long story short I have been focusing on it ever since. I have the new Mig resin (and you should be receiving the other soon) and the dimensions of my Frag 5 door have to be re thought and fiddled with and then I will resume the Frag 6 armour project. The newer Mig M1114 is light years ahead of the older one which is inspiring. I also have an SF HMMWV that I have re thought as well.
I'm back in the arctic for another month and brought the Bushmaster to work on, should have brought the new Mig and the door too but I didn't.
And you, any packages arrived for the IA? Any new subject matter lurking where you work?
Stay safe
Bill

We haven't made a mail run in quite a while, which is a shame. I could sure use some ice cream. I hear more and more FOBs are getting Burger Kings just like the have in Kuwait. Not that I'd actually eat at one, but it's the thought that counts.
The flip side of not being on a FOB means not getting messed with about ridiculous things like PT reflective belts and other nonsense. So I remain pretty happy with present circumstances.
Interesting projects abound here, but you'll know about them soon enough. I've got plenty of good diorama ideas, even if they include vehicles I have little to do with. The main vehicle of choice remains the 1151, although I have put the MaxxPro to use a time or two. It just can't go where the 1151can, and not nearly as fast either.
Post pics when you can. Between outings, lifting and surfing are about the only two forms of entertainment that don't violate general order number one.

What's the status on this project?

James
I had to put this project on hold when the Mig M1114 resin was unusable. I had since contacted Mig and they replaced the entire M1114 set with a new and far superior conversion. During that time I started my Bushmaster which is totally scratched and it has occupied me ever since. I had made the front doors for the Frag 5 but now have to refit everything to fit the new resin hood. Seeing 18Bravo's latest picture of the 1151 and earlier pics of interior shots of the 1114 (no cushions etc.) kinda got my juices flowing again. Now I'm considering the interior door detail, full interior......will it ever end.
Thanks for asking.
Bill