Hmmmm, Is it me or are there "spots", dimples?? Opps, on the scan??
) I didn't look closely enough at my copy of "V.K.45.02 to Tiger II" 
it has the same text as on the page Herbert posted, DOH!! 
) I still think interpreting the passage the way Herbert does is questonable. As well, I go back to the fact that if that were the case, then why didn't Mr. Jentz include that in the photo caption of the "Octo" Tiger II just a few pages further on in the book? Further, why haven't we seen more examples of the scheme on another vehicle? We do have pics of late war Panthers that were painted in a two tone camo scheme. The order was issued in mid January '45, yet the "octo" remains the only documented example of this unique camo scheme. Surely given that much lead time there would be more examples than just the one?Ok, I'll man up here and admit I screwed up. (not uncommon some would say
BUT, I'm still very skeptical that the "Octo" was to be the new camo scheme. (did I mention I'm stubborn
Cheers guys,
Mike
And Bill, apart from no Octopus on other vehicles, here's another one to ponder, have you seen any Disc-camouflage on a Tiger-B or E? Or a Pz III or IV? You also know that it is possible to identify which company did final assembly of a Panther by it's camouflage pattern, such as the diagonal scheme is DB. And the Zimmerit patterns, that too is a clear pointer to what plant the vehicle comes from.
I will say though that the question of disc-camo is an interesting one considering that some take the position that this is actually what we've come to know as the "ambush" camo scheme and is therefore more commonly seen in photos than previously thought. I personally don't have a viewpoint on that one way or the other. And Bill, apart from no Octopus on other vehicles, here's another one to ponder, have you seen any Disc-camouflage on a Tiger-B or E? Or a Pz III or IV? You also know that it is possible to identify which company did final assembly of a Panther by it's camouflage pattern, such as the diagonal scheme is DB. And the Zimmerit patterns, that too is a clear pointer to what plant the vehicle comes from.
Point of the matter, even though an order is given, it is clearly to see, that this does not mean that each and every plant implements that order EXACTLY the same as any other plant. Zimmerit was applied differently, camouflage schemes were applied differently, heck, with the Panther, even parts were used in different ways between plants like no chinned mantlets from MNH, last steel wheel from MAN to give 2 examples.
That no other vehicle is showing up in photographs(!!) with Octopus doesn't mean it WAS NOT the new camo-scheme.
But, if it is that I am not interpreting this all correct, than what was the reason for this one single weird Tiger-B? End of the war frollicks? Painters getting giddy with brushes, intoxicated by wine and paintfumes? Just kidding, but really, what explanation can there be for such a scheme to be put on just one single vehicle if not for the fact is was ordered so?
, though I will say this will be my last post on this subject, as I'm sure many are tired of reading about it, and Herbert hasn't said anything to convince me to change my mind, and the same goes the other way. ), but they were in a hurry and this was what they had time for. The "suckers" were obviously done hastily and a variation on the "ambush" spots, as is the rest of the scheme (done quickly that is). I think it was an attempt to get some paint on just to break up the shape of the tank, nothing else. )
Well, from the silence from everyone else that know's German Armor camo, I guess this was just a freak of nature decission to paint funny green circles in wavy bands of yellow paint. Makes no sense to me, especially since the Allies ruled the air, and could spot a king tiger masquerading in an octopus outfit from pretty far away, seemed like a recipe for disaster to me, but who knows right....
Brad
Quoted TextWell, from the silence from everyone else that know's German Armor camo, I guess this was just a freak of nature decission to paint funny green circles in wavy bands of yellow paint. Makes no sense to me, especially since the Allies ruled the air, and could spot a king tiger masquerading in an octopus outfit from pretty far away, seemed like a recipe for disaster to me, but who knows right....
Brad
....brilliant line of thought.....
Anyway, seeing as how the German army had a good reason to get their vehicles camouflaged the best they could, being on the defensive side and all, it stands without question they put a lot of thought into their camouflage schemes.
There are those who disagree, but my interpretation of Jentz is that the Octopus camouflage was ordered and is NOT a freak idea at the factory.
Anyone who is working at a plant, and is sure to get fired on in a short time, will NOT get silly with painting weird things on just that what will defend your workplace, namely the very tanks you are producing.
Perhaps my comments were silly and inappropriate, if so I applogize; however when one wants to use camauflage, they try to conceal themselves amongst the surrounding area they are planning to operate in. If they were going to defend the biggest roadway into the heart of Germany's cities, why use this camo scheme?
Quoted TextPerhaps my comments were silly and inappropriate, if so I applogize; however when one wants to use camauflage, they try to conceal themselves amongst the surrounding area they are planning to operate in. If they were going to defend the biggest roadway into the heart of Germany's cities, why use this camo scheme?
Brad,
It's worth noting that the main intent of camouflage is not to conceal per se but rather to break up the vehicle's outline and make it harder to spot as a result. Even though the German army had used operations-area specific schemes in the earlier periods, by war's end they were using factory-applied standardized ordered schemes as a rule. While the effectiveness of the "octopus" scheme will never actually be fully known, it stands to reason that if it was an ordered scheme as Herbert's interpretation suggests, it was because it would serve the primary purpose of breaking up the vehicle's outline via the patterns and still used existing paint stock colors to do so...namely the then ordered Olivegrun basecoat plus Dunkelgelb stripes overlaid vs. the 3 tone schemes that preceded it.
Afyer looking at the "Hi res" picture and the color photo side by side, you can see the tonal variation in a few places where it might be brown. Look for yourself.
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