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Jagdpanzer IV L/70
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 11:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

John- From what i've seen, I'm not a huge Tamiya fan. I've noticed there are a few "new" kits on their online catalog but how much better they are compared to their older models and then compared to kits like Dragon, I don't know, which makes me sway towards Dragon who I know builds excellent models. If I start getting red spots i think that would be the time to break out the bottle of Jack my friend.


Hey Justin,
Don't dismiss Tamiya kits outright based on the accuracy and quality of their older kits.
Their newer ones are generally very good and some of the older ones are still well worth building.
Tamiya did take some shortcuts in the past and still do, omitting little things like engine cover handles, sponson floors, retaining bolts, fuel cap covers, etc.....
In many cases, they got the vehicles dimensions wrong in making their kits motorized.
The main sore point with Tamiya is that they keep releasing the same old kits, reusing the same old molds and asking top dollar for them or adding a few bits of PE or metal barrels and asking for even more $$$$..
Starting with their late model Tiger I back in the late 80's/early 90's, they moved towards static model kits.
Their quality has improved remarkably, at least in my opinion, and I've been building them for almost 40 years.
One thing that's always been in Tamiya's favour is that their kits are well engineered, the instructions clearly marked out and very easy to read.
Their latest kits are very good, the JS-2m, the Opel Blitz truck, their two Char B1 kits and the new Pz.Kpfw. II amongst them.

Dragon's kits are also very good but they can be overly complicated and the instructions can sometimes be confusing or misleading.
Many of Dragon's early kits were dogs (and still are) but they have made attempts to improve them.
Their Premium kits for example are upgrades of some of the old molds with new parts sprues, metal barrels and PE parts added.
Some of the Smart Kits are complete new tooling of a vehicle that was previously produced by Dragon.
Dragon's kits tend to be cheaper than Tamiya's but it all boils down to what you want and expect in a model.
All in all, don't write off Tamiya based on what you've seen from kits that are over 30 years old.
Cheers

jjumbo
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 308 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 03:08 PM UTC
John, thats all a very well made point. It is very easy to become close minded about Tamiya for myself, since first impressions are the lasting ones. I will try to find some newer models from Tamiya, perhaps at the very least to sway myself from thinking they are bad kits.

About Tamiya, you were spot on when it comes to clear instructions and well engineered kits. For me, omitting things that were clearly on the vehicle is in-excusable and I will leave final judgement for their kits until I get a newer model.

About Dragon, you were certainly correct about the instructions, at least for the F2 smart kit i build, they were like trying to read a childrens book upside down (yes i referenced George W. on Sept. 11). Their kits have alot of parts and are more complicated than Tamiya kits, but I had a much better feeling of accomplishment with Dragon kits. For me, Dragon is the way to go. But in the end, I will certainly give some newer Tamiya models a shot.
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
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Posted: Friday, January 16, 2009 - 11:47 AM UTC
Hey Justin,
This is a bit but choosing Tamiya or Dragon may soon become a mute point.
Going from what you may have read in recent posts regarding Tamiya raising their prices and CyberHobby/Dragon releasing upgraded older kits, people's choice of kits may soon be based more by a decision of price over quality:

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/132251&page=1
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/132213&page=1

With the current world economic situation, you wonder if kit manufacturers will be forced to pay more attention to sites like this and either (1) improve their product to justify the price increases, (2) lower their prices and sell what's already available, (3) a combination of (1) or (2) or (4) go out of business because they can't sell their product.
Pretty heavy stuff but, when you consider the number of people now bankrupt, unemployed or soon to be one or the other, the first thing that people will stop buying is hobby or leisure items in lieu of food and shelter !!
I just hope that things get better sooner than later, hopefully this doesn't bum you out too much.
Cheers

jjumbo
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 308 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 16, 2009 - 08:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Pretty heavy stuff but, when you consider the number of people now bankrupt, unemployed or soon to be one or the other, the first thing that people will stop buying is hobby or leisure items in lieu of food and shelter !!


What?! I'd rather starve than have no model to build!

I haven't read those two articles, so far i've avoided the politics of the companies prices and such. The current economic issues don't impact me quite as much since the Army isn't laying people off and all in all, we get a comfortable paycheck, atleast for a 21 year old kid.

jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
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Posted: Friday, January 16, 2009 - 09:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

What?! I'd rather starve than have no model to build!

I haven't read those two articles, so far i've avoided the politics of the companies prices and such. The current economic issues don't impact me quite as much since the Army isn't laying people off and all in all, we get a comfortable paycheck, atleast for a 21 year old kid.


Hey Justin,
YUUUUUCCCCCHHHH, it's hard to eat plastic
Nice to have a comfortable pay cheque, it would be marvelous to have that kind of job security nowadays !
That's except for all the guys on the other team aiming weapons at you !!!
Not that there's much chance of that were you're stationed, you're more likely to get run over by a KIA rather than blown up by a IED !!!
I would imagine that the price of kits in the ROK is somewhat lower than it is over here in North America.
FYI - there's a guy named Guillaume Petit, aka axismodeler, in Japan who posted on the site earlier, asking about LHS in Seoul.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/132275&page=1
It's on the other side of the peninsula but maybe you'd be able to help him ??
Cheers

jjumbo
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 308 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 02:24 AM UTC
Well, if it came down to having to eat models....These lowsy Tamiya models would go first. However, i managed to give my StuG IV a "make-over". I posted some pictures a few days ago. I left a reply on that post by axis...I haven't made it to Seoul yet but I'll try to locate some shops utilizing the KATUSA's i work with.

Yes, I am considerably more like to get whacked by these crazy ass drivers than an IED. The korean lunar new year is coming up so that should be wonderful, korean drivers with Soju in their system.....lots of Soju!
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 2,012 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 06:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I haven't made it to Seoul yet but I'll try to locate some shops utilizing the KATUSA's i work with.


Hey Justin,
These KATUSA 'ssound like an interesting bunch from what I've read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KATUSA

From what my friend Dae Hoon has told me, the ROK army is no fun !!


Quoted Text

Yes, I am considerably more like to get whacked by these crazy ass drivers than an IED. The korean lunar new year is coming up so that should be wonderful, korean drivers with Soju in their system.....lots of Soju!


Never heard of this Soju stuff, it sounds like Korean rocket fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soju


Quoted Text

FYI - there's a guy named Guillaume Petit, aka axismodeler, in Japan who posted on the site earlier, asking about LHS in Seoul.


Good on yah to help axismodeler aka Guillaume in finding a LHS in Seoul.
On a modelling note, how's your Jagdpanzer build going ??
Any new pics ??
Cheers

jjumbo
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 308 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 01:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I haven't made it to Seoul yet but I'll try to locate some shops utilizing the KATUSA's i work with.


Hey Justin,
These KATUSA 'ssound like an interesting bunch from what I've read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KATUSA

From what my friend Dae Hoon has told me, the ROK army is no fun !!


Quoted Text

Yes, I am considerably more like to get whacked by these crazy ass drivers than an IED. The korean lunar new year is coming up so that should be wonderful, korean drivers with Soju in their system.....lots of Soju!


Never heard of this Soju stuff, it sounds like Korean rocket fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soju


Quoted Text

FYI - there's a guy named Guillaume Petit, aka axismodeler, in Japan who posted on the site earlier, asking about LHS in Seoul.


Good on yah to help axismodeler aka Guillaume in finding a LHS in Seoul.
On a modelling note, how's your Jagdpanzer build going ??
Any new pics ??
Cheers

jjumbo


Well, the KATUSAs are great guys. Most commonly they are from wealthy families, this is due to the fact that competition for the program is extremely tough and your English skills make or break you. Most KATUSAs have spent several years in the states and for some, like Sgt. Jung whom I work with, you can tell that hes been there. The American influences are astonishing. They usually try to avoid the ROK army, either because of the "rich boy" attitude or simply because the ROK army has absolutely no privleges.

From what I am told about Soju, its pretty much a combonation of anything and everything. Jinro, the most common brand is 40% alcohol by volume. I've heard it contains formaldahyde also. It has very little taste and when combined with fruit juice, nearly dissappears. Hence the term "juicy girl" for the Phillipino women who work in the clubs just off post. And I am always happy to help a fellow modeler!

I haven't made any progress on the JP yet, I got thoroughly hammered Friday night and spent 3/4s of Saturday in bed with a hangover from hell. I'll have the roadwheels done today and the Lionroar PE kit should be coming in this week.
John_O
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Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium
Joined: November 23, 2007
KitMaker: 569 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 19, 2009 - 03:08 AM UTC
Hey Justin,

I'm just wondering what exactly is in de Tasca Panzer IV suspension and wheel box? Would one box allow you to let's say make a Jagdpanzer IV and have wheels and such left for a normal Panzer IV (J that is) or even Kügelblitz.

What has been said in previous posts about the economic situation... On the first Monday of the new year my girlfriend was told she had lost her job. And since she's independent that really hit home. So I've postponed an order I was going to make and other purchases modelwise have slowed down or have been put in the fridge. To me it's clear that the way model companies have been and are increasing their prices something will have to bend or break. I'm really worried about my local model store surviving the coming year!

J
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: October 02, 2008
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Posted: Monday, January 19, 2009 - 05:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey Justin,

I'm just wondering what exactly is in de Tasca Panzer IV suspension and wheel box? Would one box allow you to let's say make a Jagdpanzer IV and have wheels and such left for a normal Panzer IV (J that is) or even Kügelblitz.

What has been said in previous posts about the economic situation... On the first Monday of the new year my girlfriend was told she had lost her job. And since she's independent that really hit home. So I've postponed an order I was going to make and other purchases modelwise have slowed down or have been put in the fridge. To me it's clear that the way model companies have been and are increasing their prices something will have to bend or break. I'm really worried about my local model store surviving the coming year!

J


John,

Well, the problem with the road wheels is that they come in two halves. part W2 is the inner half and is only supplied in sufficient numbers for one model. The outer half part WB1 (A-D model), WD1 (E-F model), and WA1 (G-H) model amounts to 20 each. So you are left over with a boat load of outer half road wheels. So in my case, I can't use this set to build a Pz. IV Ausf. C for instance. However, there are still 8 bogies left over for the Ausf. A-H and still 4 different types of return rollers and their mounts. Also, there is the early version of the bump stops available. So in shorter terms, the only thing you can use in another kit are the bogies, return rollers, and bump stops. The road wheels are out of the question due to not having enough inner road wheels for more than one kit.

Sorry to hear about your girlfriends job. My father is out of one also but that is just as likely to result from him telling off his boss as the economic times are . Honestly, I just went to Taegu today and picked up Tamiya's Jagdpanther and Dragons Henschel turret K.T with zim. for 91,000 won or roughly 80 bucks, the exchange rate is holding around 1300 won to a dollar right now. The effects have not hit my LHS.....yet.

P.S...its Tristar not Tasca... (joke with jjumbo, read above when I called it an Italieri kit)

To fully answer your question, you would not have the supplies need to build a Pz. IV ausf. J. Unfortunately, its one or the other.
John_O
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Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium
Joined: November 23, 2007
KitMaker: 569 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 23, 2009 - 12:08 AM UTC
Unbelievable, I had been reading your posts about the 'Italeri' wheels and thought " It's Tristar" and now I make a mistake myself.

I'm a happy camper, I've got a receit from the delivery company and can go and pick up my order from Hobby Easy today. Inclusing the Jagdpanzer IV.

John
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: October 02, 2008
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Posted: Friday, January 23, 2009 - 03:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Unbelievable, I had been reading your posts about the 'Italeri' wheels and thought " It's Tristar" and now I make a mistake myself.

I'm a happy camper, I've got a receit from the delivery company and can go and pick up my order from Hobby Easy today. Inclusing the Jagdpanzer IV.

John


John, im looking forward to seeing your J.P take shape, hopefully shes nowhere near the devil this has been to build, but its a fun build. here are some update pics:

Suspension and wheels finished:



Head light mount removed from original fender
Then glued onto PE fender
Pic showing the headlight mount removed

Front fenders removed
Lionroar PE fenders on

A note about the fenders...They were supposed to be constructed as one long fender that was supposed to run the entire lenth of the tank. However, They were too short So i only replaced the front fenders and used the stock plastic rear fenders. I guess there is only so much gilding you can do to one lily!
John_O
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Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium
Joined: November 23, 2007
KitMaker: 569 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 26, 2009 - 10:42 PM UTC
Justin, I wouldn't hold my breath for my build. For now it's ermm stash building. I've got a number of other kits I'd like to finish first, but limited time makes my builds go really slow.

Cheers,

John
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: October 02, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 06:59 PM UTC
Well, I've been up here in Seoul and have made a few attempts to find some local hobby shops but to no avail. I've also spent the last week or so finishing my K.T for the Big Cats campaign, and if anyone is interested in seeing that big girl, they are on page nine. Anyway...about the J.P. I was working on the roof springs and in the process of preparing the commanders roof for placement in the open position, i messed up the brackets. I'll have to place it in the closed position and forego the figures for this one. Also, I've run into a bit of a squeeze when it comes to buying things so for now, i'm going to have to place this one on hold up to the tracks. I've got Tamiya's JagdPanther in my closet, perhaps build that one while I am waiting.

Good luck on your slow builds John!
padawan_82
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, January 30, 2009 - 09:44 AM UTC
justin i'd remove the light fixture and replace it with the one from tamiya's on vehicle equipment set as the original kit fixture and light are slightly oversized. good job landing on the tristar wheels they really do bring the kit more upto date. keep up the the good work. Ant
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Friday, January 30, 2009 - 09:06 PM UTC
Well, the light mount is on, theres not much thats going to take it off, shes bonded to the fender pretty well. Its just going to have to stay for this build. Shes becoming a serious headache overall. But im just doing small parts here and there, probably have her done by mid feb. Theres a Tamiya JagdPanther that can't wait to come out of the closet and join the collection.
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 06:28 PM UTC
Well, i've finished the build portion unfortunately. She went "overbudget" and there won't be funds for models for some time. Rather than let her sit and collect dust and possibly break, I am going to have to use the Tamiya supplied band tracks and forego the figures and aluminum barrel and OVM kits. The lionroar PE kit gave me migraines the entire time i built her and had to use the plastic parts that were supposed to be replaced since I either broke or lost the small metal pieces. I've learned superglue does not like bonding metal to metal or metal to plastic But here are the build pictures, I'll start painting shortly.










I closed the commanders hatch since I was not going to be placing the figure in it as planned. Also leadin to this was the fact that i completely messed up the hinges supplied in the aftermarket kit.
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 06:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The lionroar PE kit gave me migraines the entire time i built her and had to use the plastic parts that were supposed to be replaced since I either broke or lost the small metal pieces. I've learned superglue does not like bonding metal to metal or metal to plastic.


Hey Justin,
You're really getting along with that JP.
One trick when using CA on PE is to lightly rough up the surfaces with coarse sandpaper or sanding stick.
That gives the CA a better surface to stick to.
Another thing to make sure of is that the surfaces you're gluing are clean.
Cheers

jjumbo
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 08:20 PM UTC
Thanks jumbo. I'll try those ideas out on the next PE set I work with. Looking at the pictures, she looks awfully messy but I've laid down the basecoat and everything looks good. Shes got a coat of dark yellow on her, during the week i'll lay down the olive green and red brown camoflage.
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: October 02, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2009 - 07:49 PM UTC
Hello gentlemen.

I've been debating on the camoflage pattern for this build and after some research have seen a few vehicles with alternating color spots inside the olive green and red brown paint. Did late war Jagdpanzers use this particular paint scheme? Also, does anyone have additional photographs of late war JP IVs?
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 09, 2009 - 04:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello gentlemen.

I've been debating on the camoflage pattern for this build and after some research have seen a few vehicles with alternating color spots inside the olive green and red brown paint. Did late war Jagdpanzers use this particular paint scheme? Also, does anyone have additional photographs of late war JP IVs?


Hey Justin,
If I understand you correctly, I think you're referring to the "ambush pattern" camouflage used on late war German vehicles:

http://www.figuren-modellbau.de/camouflage-german-wehrmacht.html

http://www.hlj.com/product/SSGMCD107

I've seen a number of photos and films of JP's sporting this kind of camo, usually from during the Battle of the Bulge
I'll see if I can find them and will PM you the URL's.
Cheers C[

jjumbo
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 09, 2009 - 11:10 PM UTC
Well heres the basecoat laid down, I got off of work late today and there was no sunlight to take good pictures.




smokeys_keepers
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: November 04, 2008
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Posted: Monday, February 09, 2009 - 11:35 PM UTC
Looking good dude. Cant wait to see how your camo job looks! Keep it up
tskross
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New York, United States
Joined: August 29, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 01:57 AM UTC
Hi Justin
been following this build log eagerly awaiting the painting stage! I gotta say I was a little worried looking at the final build shots that it might be messy but it looks great with the base coat!
Here is a link to a pic of a jagdpanzer in the ardennes belonging to the 12th ss
12th SS JpIV
it is a fairly popular paint scheme (for modellers0, what is interesting about it is that it appears to have been made by painting a soft edged 3 tone camo and then using a stencil made up of overlapping circles gone back over with the yellow (you can tell because of the light toned 'triangle' shapes made from the negative space of the circles.
there are some more pics here
acthung panzer
you can also see some more detail shots here:
camo schemes
although I would take the computer rendered version with a grain of salt...
Just one option of many
good luck, it looks great so far!
integraguy95
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: October 02, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 10:13 AM UTC
Andrew, thanks for dropping in on this build and for the kind words. hopefully she will be finished this weekend. Franco Harris is supposed to be in Osan so I'll be up there getting his autograph on saturday. I believe this build should wrap up on Sunday.

Kross, Thanks for following along. I was happy with the basecoat, it covered up alot of the excess glue from the weld seams especially. I am not sure if it was the consecutive very thin coats I laid down on her. Thanks for those sites, I've seen the 12th SS Jagd before only in a grainy video though. Thats the exact camo pattern I am looking for. Thanks again and im looking forward to your word on the finished vehicle.
 _GOTOTOP