Campaigns
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
Braille Battlefield
SSgtWhite
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Montana, United States
Joined: November 17, 2010
KitMaker: 26 posts
Armorama: 22 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 07:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

SSgtWhite - As Matthew (our XO) has kindly pointed out, your first objective would be to enlist. After enlarging the picture that you provided I see that the left large sprue has about thirty or so parts removed from its lower centre section. I presume that those are the tiny suspension wheels that appear to be in the plastic bag residing in the upper right.

If I really wanted to be anal and stick to the letter of the rules I would say that removing parts from a sprue was "starting" the kit. However, I believe more in the "spirit" of a rule(s). In this case, and with the photo evidence provided, I am leaning toward this being a "new" build providing that as Matthew stated, glue has not met plastic. Could you please show a picture of the parts in the plastic bag and particularly the frame parts that were parts 42 and 43 in the instructions. BTW, I have sent you a private message about enlisting, just click on the "Inbox" link at the top left of a Kitmaker page to view it.

***************************************************************************

Cheers,
Jan



No worries at all. I don't want any special considerations.

After taking the pieces out of the bag I see I glued the wheel halves together too.
Please consider me as a two-kit campaigner as I will add my TPz 1 "Fuchs" A4 kit. I plan to build this one as the UN ambulance version.

I didn't receive the instant message, but I will follow the link to enlist. This looks like a lot of fun!

~Dillon
tread_geek
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2008
KitMaker: 2,847 posts
Armorama: 2,667 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 08:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


No worries at all. I don't want any special considerations.

After taking the pieces out of the bag I see I glued the wheel halves together too.
Please consider me as a two-kit campaigner as I will add my TPz 1 "Fuchs" A4 kit. I plan to build this one as the UN ambulance version.

I didn't receive the instant message, but I will follow the link to enlist. This looks like a lot of fun!



@Dillon - Okay, as soon as I see that you have enlisted I will add your callsign and choices to the master chart. The FT-17 variant looks particularly interesting. I hope that you are ready for a lot of fun with the Fuchs A4. I have one in the stash and from what I see it has the same (or very similar) suspension to the Luchs that I built some time ago. That suspension is one of the most detailed and difficult of any 1/72 kit that I have encountered to date.

Have I got you worried yet?

Cheers,
Jan
SSgtWhite
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Montana, United States
Joined: November 17, 2010
KitMaker: 26 posts
Armorama: 22 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 08:19 AM UTC
A little, yes -- ha!

Here is my Fuchs kit:



I'll post some progress photos of the 1917 this weekend!

~Dillon
tread_geek
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2008
KitMaker: 2,847 posts
Armorama: 2,667 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 09:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A little, yes -- ha!

Here is my Fuchs kit:



Dillon, to ease your mind a bit I should point out that the Luchs had one more axle, two more wheels, an additional transfer case in it's suspension and many more springs and shock absorbers than the Fuchs. Just take your time with the two builds and remember this is supposed to be a fun and relaxing hobby.

With Dillon and Grizzly enlisting we are now up to 46 participants in this campaign. We max'd out at 42 with the Matchbox Campaign so this is quite encouraging. I have updated the master chart near the top of page 14 with the latest additions.

Cheers,
Jan
sabredog
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Western Australia, Australia
Joined: July 22, 2007
KitMaker: 607 posts
Armorama: 599 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 01:38 PM UTC
Crikey

I have a break due to my daughter giving birth to our first grandchild and activity in this campaign has increased!

Great work everyone.

A typed update at this stage. The T-34/76 mod. 1940 is well into painting stage, with pin washing and dot filtering just about to begin. I have also got further with the BA-6 as well.
SSgtWhite
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Montana, United States
Joined: November 17, 2010
KitMaker: 26 posts
Armorama: 22 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 06:25 PM UTC
This RPM kit is fairly detailed ... which means I'm breaking a lot of the thinner pieces, ahem. Photo is of the main portion of the chassis plus a scratch fire wall. The M1917 had a wall while the original French version did not. I think I may leave the turret hatches open so I went ahead and gave the interior some white treatment.

Korpse
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 08:24 PM UTC
Hello

welcome to the latest additions, I'm looking forward to watching your builds

@Radek - Your Flak Blitz chassis looks as good as the gun platform. A great build to watch.

@Panzer-Alexander - Thats a sweet looking Famo.

@Firefly74 - The Valentine looks so good in soviet green & the extra efforts on the build look to have been well worth the time and effort.

@Firstcircle - Roden released the Blitz Maultier some years ago, but it is the unarmoured body version, virtually a Blitz with tracks in place of the rear wheels. Roden never released the armoured Maultier body you are building, though it has been on their website for some years now as a 'Future Release'. Murphy's Law states the same week you finish your scratchbuild they will release it !!

Scratching that multi angled body is no easy job, particularly without scale plans. I once scratchbuilt a body for an Opel Blitz bus. In some ways similar to your build, except probably a lot easier. Mine needed a lot of filler and sanding done before the paint hit it, much more than yours !

@sabredog - congrats grandad !



I have the Panhard ready to paint. I'd have a base coat on by now, but we have had monsoonal type rain, and very high humidity, which I know from past experience leads to bad results with the airbrush & paint, so I'll wait for clear skies and for the humidity to drop a bit, hopefully in another couple of weeks.

In the meantime I may as well start another build (with the Campaign Leader's permission ?)

It was a hard choice what to build, but I decided on the Ace BA-64 Railroad Version.

I'm hoping this will be a trouble free build. I think it will be purely out of the box with no extra or super detailing. Reason for this is very few pictures exist of these and those that do are poor quality. There were 3 versions, two with small guide wheels front and back, and a version with large rail wheels in place of the rubber tyred wheels. This kit allows you to build two versions (1 large wheel or 1 small wheel version).

My friend in Bulgaria, Ilian Filipov did some research in russian sources and found the following out about these vehicles, I've put his research below in full in italics as I think its interesting and little known:

these were prototypes only, the history in short:
1. The one with big wheels (BA-20 railroad wheels were used) is known as BA-64V (V = Viskun factory) - only one prototype built. It was based on early BA-64 with narrow track and it was necessary to extend the axles to fit 1524 mm railroad track. Exactly those extended axles were the problem, the trials weren't much success because the vehicle wasn't stable on the rails. This was the reason for max speed to be restricted to 13 km/h which in turn led to engine overheating, also the vehicle, being not changed except the wheels and axles, wasn't capable for equal speeds in both directions. When ran in reverse the engine overheating was even worse. BTW, the trials took place in the Russian winter so you can imagine what the overheat was. Soon the project was abandoned.
2. The one with those small sexy wheels was known as BA-64G (G = Gorky plant, i.e. GAZ) and was based on serial wide track BA-64B, that's why axle extensions weren't necessary. However, because the wheels were too small the vehicle often derailed and the whole rail adapter construction was too weak. After it was strengthened the vehicle continued to derail, in particular in turnouts, X-crossings and curves. At certain moment the development of such vehicle was considered "not of necessity at this stage" and the project was frozen with recommendations for the GAZ factory to prepare all necessary drawings for the conversion "in case of necessity in the future". Little later a second prototype was produced, on which a special reverse box was fitted to achieve equal speeds in both directions.
However, from 1943 on the role of the armoured trains and patrol railcars on the Eastern front constantly decreased and there was no demand of such vehicles.


Below are the box, instructions and sprue shots. No brass etch and no decals in this kit

cheers
Neil




eremzet
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Katowice, Poland
Joined: September 10, 2010
KitMaker: 89 posts
Armorama: 87 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 11:42 PM UTC
Guys!

I'm so glad to see so many interesting vehicles! The effort You do is fantastic. I see grat scratch built here, and the another RPM kit which make me very happy (ModellTrans has issued resin suspension for that model - it's really cheap and very, very well detailed!).

@Neil - I see You like railroad cars I wish you a lot of luck and patience with Ace kit - I have made two - it's a big challenge, seriously.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And now my flakblitz...

Cabin:




... and the rest put together:


Firefly74
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 15, 2010
KitMaker: 224 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 12:00 AM UTC
Hi all. Great to see this campaign keeps gaining momentum and there are so many interesting builds being done.
Welcome to the campaign newcomers!
Thanks for the comments on the soviet Valentine, i'd have to say the Italeri kit isn't the best but comes out ok with some work.
Firstcircle: Thanks for the tip on the colour variation, i had thought about trying that on another build I'm working on.Your scratch build is looking good!
Jan: your StuH is really coming together after all that major surgery!
Sabredog: congrats on your first Grandchild!
SSgtWhite: nice choice of kit,i have been wanting to pick up one of the RPM FT-17's for awhile.
Korpse: Another interesting rail armoured car, you have inspired me to pick one up sometime as a future build. And don't get me started about all this rain were getting!
A progress shot of the Airfix Vickers VI. I primed it with Tamiya fine surface primer,first time I have used this,was happy with the result. I have brushed on 2 coats of the base colour Humbrol 'Grass Green". B.E.F vechicles could come in any combination of 3 different greens, i have picked the lightest colour as a base.
Have started work on the tracks and running gear and will apply the camo (Humbrol Bronze green) sometime this week.
Cheers,
Tim
Sudzonic
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: December 07, 2007
KitMaker: 2,096 posts
Armorama: 1,983 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 01:35 AM UTC
Hay all, the black dog set fits on the turret perfectly with no clean up needed at all and looks very good.

Jan I paid about £9 for the set no idea what that is in Canadian $?

minas-ithil
#110
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Florida, United States
Joined: September 20, 2005
KitMaker: 248 posts
Armorama: 224 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 02:33 AM UTC
Tim,
I like your build on the Vickers VI. I have that kit in the stash and was thinking about it for my second build. Nice work, especially doing the BEF scheme.

Stephen
eremzet
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Katowice, Poland
Joined: September 10, 2010
KitMaker: 89 posts
Armorama: 87 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 04:33 AM UTC
And after work today......


Sudzonic
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Joined: December 07, 2007
KitMaker: 2,096 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 04:51 AM UTC
WOW that is a very nice build Radek well done.

well the Abrams is almost ready for paint now.


eremzet
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Katowice, Poland
Joined: September 10, 2010
KitMaker: 89 posts
Armorama: 87 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 06:08 AM UTC
@Tim - Your tiny Vickers looks cool I wait for this little fellow in 1/72 scale. It's grat subject for modelling. And BEF scheme is not so usual on this tank's models.

@Scott - with all this resin Your Abrams starts to look more "ready to fight"! Can't wait Your painting works.

Edit: Finally I upload the photos to the BB gallery
tread_geek
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2008
KitMaker: 2,847 posts
Armorama: 2,667 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 06:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Jan I paid about £9 for the set no idea what that is in Canadian $?



Scott, at the last exchange rate that would be $14.35. The cheapest I found on this side of the pond, mail order was $17.99 ( £11.30) and the shipping was almost as much again. I must admit though, the set does look very good on the M1.

@SSgtWhite - It's nice to see the little beast coming along. That RPM kit looks like quite a few parts for such a small subject. I also see that the scratching bug of this campaign has bitten you as well (the firewall). With the tiny parts it is always a good idea to use a fresh knife blade. I use a normal (average) #11 Exacto for most parts but have an Excel Ultra super sharp for the smaller and more delicate pieces.

@sabredog - I was wondering why you were MIA, again! Congratulations Grand-Pappy! Another yung'un to steer toward the hobby.

@Korpse - Not another RAIL SUBJECT!!! Seriously though, I doubt that you can do an out of box build. The Panhard took you a step beyond your usual fastidious standard so I can't see you dropping back. Your preamble to the builds is enlightening and well presented. Always a good read. You have my sincere hopes that the weather breaks for you so that you can get some painting done. We have had two days of rain showers here but we are quite fortunate. Our small pocket has remained fairly clear while all compass points around us have snow measured in feet. I'd also like to thank you for promoting the campaign in the Braille Scale Forum. Myself or the XO really should get around to posting a formal notice of it in that forum.

@eremzet The Opel project is turning out at the same high standard of the AB. Congratulations on getting the photos in the official gallery. I was just about to write a lengthy instruction when I had notification that you had posted in this forum.

@Firefly74 - You are really making some good progress and the little tyke is looking very respectable. I wonder which is smaller, the Mark VI or the FT-17? I wonder how many of these little tanks would fit on the FAMO or the Elefant's tailers that are being build for this campaign.

A pretty quick start during this campaign as there are now two models complete and in the gallery. We are still waiting on 18 out of 46 or 39% to decide what they are doing for the campaign (New or Finish) and select their subjects. The master chart has been updated to reflect the changes over the last day.

Cheers,
Jan
SSgtWhite
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Montana, United States
Joined: November 17, 2010
KitMaker: 26 posts
Armorama: 22 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 09:15 AM UTC
Thanks for the tip -- The moulding on the srue is a little hard to work with. In some spots the sprue covers areas of the parts. I've also run into some small but managable fitment issues with the running gear of the track. I'm making more progress though.

And yes, as far as detail, the kit even has grab handles for the driver's hatch and the turret doors have open vision slits. The rivets look great too.

The .30 cal. MG and seperate pioneer tools it comes with are nice too.

Again, aside from the difficulty of removing the parts from the sprue, this kit has been a lot of fun to put together. And, the pieces I snapped glued back together seamlessly.

~Dillon
woltersk
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Utah, United States
Joined: May 27, 2003
KitMaker: 1,026 posts
Armorama: 654 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 04:08 PM UTC
Sanded the strap and block from the gun barrel. Rebuilt the block on the A-frame and added a PE strap. I'm still a novice at PE and it took three attempts to get it to look halfway decent. The hole looks a bit small but I can live with it.

SSgtWhite
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Montana, United States
Joined: November 17, 2010
KitMaker: 26 posts
Armorama: 22 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 04:54 PM UTC
Dry-fitted the track gear minus the drive sprockets.

It's very "Sherlock Holmes" or "League of Extraordinary Gentleman." I'm thinking a light mix of Russian armor green and maybe JA Green will get me the shade I want.

I really dig this kit.

Also, it's about the length of a fingernail clipper.



~Dillon
eremzet
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Katowice, Poland
Joined: September 10, 2010
KitMaker: 89 posts
Armorama: 87 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 09:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Sanded the strap and block from the gun barrel. Rebuilt the block on the A-frame and added a PE strap. I'm still a novice at PE and it took three attempts to get it to look halfway decent. The hole looks a bit small but I can live with it.




Keith, I'm afraid that Nashorns had the block fixed to the barrel, not to the barrel support. That was the part of the system for quick unblocking of the support. This block was divided in two halves connected with bolt.
Firefly74
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 15, 2010
KitMaker: 224 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 09:44 PM UTC
Hi all.
Radek: Your Opel is great! A suitably battered vehicle for the Africa Korps.
SSgtWhite:That's a great looking kit!
Waltersk:Looking forward to seeing more of your Nashorn. I saw one in a local model shop the other day and came close to buying it.(Instead walked away with 2 other kits!)

Stephen and Radek:The Airfix Vickers has been a fun kit to build,it fits together easy and is very quick to build.
It does have a number of inaccuracies though. All of the amour plate join seams and cupola hatch are oversized, (I fixed the ones on the sides of the turret with putty but left the rest).There are no rivets at all on the kit and there are no teeth on the outside of the tracks,instead there is a strange set of blocks in the middle where the road wheels are??!!.(The tracks also have a mold seam all the way around the middle of them which is difficult to remove.)
I have bought a resin kit of the Vickers as well that does not have all the above inaccuracies, that I will probably build in the rare 3 tone green B.E.F camo (was usually 2 tone),that is, if 2 Vickers VI isn't going to bore people???
I also have a Resin Scout Carrier I was thinking of doing in B.E.F colours, maybe Highland Division.
It may have become obvious that I like B.E.F equipment! I recently came across a good source of resin kits of the vehicles I had always wanted to build as a young lad so I'am on a bit of a run with it. Also just picked up the Blitzrieg: Armour Camouflage & markings book by Steve Zaloga.A good book if anyone is interested in armour from 1939-1940.
Jan:The Vickers measures a grand total of 52mm, or 2inches for those not in the world of metric
Keep up the great work everyone!
Cheers,
Tim
Korpse
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 09:49 PM UTC
Hello all

@Radek; the progress shots of the Flitz (Flak-Blitz) show the battered paint job to good effect.
I have made a start on the BA-64 and yes I see the fit problems already. I was almost going to start another RPM kit (one of the Hotchkiss H-35 variants) but as you know the tracks need replacing, so thought this build might be a bit quicker (but maybe not)...

@firefly74; the Vickers is looking really neat

@sudzonic; the stowed gear looks cool, looking forward to seeing this one painted

@SSgtWhite; I like how the little Renault looks. Appears you put some wire to good use for handles.


The BA-64 has had a little progress.

It has a basic interior, with just a pedestal mount for the MG, driver's seat, 2 gear sticks, and a steering wheel. I'm not going to improve on any of that as they will not be seen. A small amount of interior may be seen when looking through the open top of the turret, but mainly only pedestal mount will be visible.

I've tried some dry fitting of parts and the fit between upper and lower hull parts is not very good. Some putty and sanding will be needed. Luckily there are some good photos and diagrams of the standard BA-64 on the web to assist with making sure the hull looks right.

Good points is that most of the tiny rivets (or bolt heads) that should be on the model seem to be there. The real vehicle had few exposed rivet or bolt heads.

This will be a tiny vehicle also - the chassis is same as the GAZ 67 jeep. I've no idea if it has any major accuracy issues or not. I'm intending (maybe hoping) to just get as good a result as I can with whats in the box (aided with a file & putty where needed)

Progress shots are below. Since these were taken I painted the interior walls white, but have since repainted them green. I dont know what is the right colour, doesnt matter much as very little will be seen through the top of the turret.

cheers
Neil







SGTJKJ
#041
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Kobenhavn, Denmark
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 10,069 posts
Armorama: 4,677 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 11:58 PM UTC
Really nice stowage on the Abrams, Scott. It really adds some realism, which can sometimes be difficult in this scale. Looking forward to see more when the paint starts hitting plastic.

Dillon, nice little build. It will be interesting to see this build when finished. The mouldings look rather crisp. How are the tracks - details ok?
naimbrain
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United Kingdom
Joined: March 15, 2010
KitMaker: 123 posts
Armorama: 118 posts
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 - 01:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text


... I wonder which is smaller, the Mark VI or the FT-17? I wonder how many of these little tanks would fit on the FAMO or the Elefant's tailers that are being build for this campaign.



I'm guessing quite a few!! The SLT50 Elefant is currently broken down into sub-assemblies for adding of final parts and initial painting, but once I get it back together I could take a photo with the Italeri Panzer 1 Ausf B on the trailer (just because it's the smallest 1/72 vehicle in my collection), would that help answer the question?

I say 'final parts' as if there are only a few left. When I tracked down the kit box I discovered lots and lots of bits carefully bagged up inside, so I'm further from completion than I had initially thought. I should've guessed from the Pzh 2000, the 'last few parts' of that kit have kept me busy until last night. I've now only got the wing mirrors to add... do I cement them now before painting or do I admit the inevitability of breaking them, and add them later? Think I'll live dangerously and add them now (take that extreme sports people!! us modellers, we're the real risk takers!!).

Building for a campaign is a new experience for me, and it's proving very interesting. The first thing I'm becoming aware of is how easily I 'stall' during a build. I usually only get about an hour a day to build (including setting up the 'workbench' which is a bit of formica on my lap), so sometimes it can seem like a build just isn't progressing. A case in point would be the last couple of weeks on the Pzh 2000. I can see that the number of remaining parts is decreasing, but looking at the kit there's not that much noticable difference. I suspect that without the knowledge of a deadline and the interest shown by fellow campaigners this build might well have gone back into the box for another few years. I'm also finding that seeing other peoples builds progressing is a real encouragement, it's great to see photo updates, especially when there is such high quality work being done. It also puts my own progress frustrations into perspective, when I see other people facing similar problems, and making similar progress.
I suspect that I may be the worst 'finisher' in the campaign, of the countless models started over the last 15 years I think the count of fully completed builds is 5 (I only managed 5 by including a 1/72 Willy's jeep)!! So anything that helps me to stay focussed on a build is really useful. I also suspect that there are quite a few more potential stall points still ahead with the Pzh 2000 & SLT50 builds (learning to spray a camo finish immediately springs to mind), but hopefully with your support and encouragement I'll get there.

With Pzh 2000 construction completed my next milestone is to complete construction of the SLT50 and get an initial coat of paint on both. I'll post photo's at that point, ideally before Christmas but more probably before/around new year.

Good luck and happy building to all, and keep posting the updates (they're greatly appreciated!)

Cheers
John
woltersk
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Utah, United States
Joined: May 27, 2003
KitMaker: 1,026 posts
Armorama: 654 posts
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 - 03:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Sanded the strap and block from the gun barrel. Rebuilt the block on the A-frame and added a PE strap. I'm still a novice at PE and it took three attempts to get it to look halfway decent. The hole looks a bit small but I can live with it.




Keith, I'm afraid that Nashorns had the block fixed to the barrel, not to the barrel support. That was the part of the system for quick unblocking of the support. This block was divided in two halves connected with bolt.



Radek, Well crap! Wouldn’t ya know it—the first clear photograph I come across (http://www.lonesentry.com/german_antitank/pics/xgerman_antitank11_nashorn_hornisse.jpg) DOESN’T show it, but now that I’ve dug deeper (http://ww2db.com/images/vehicle_hornisse10.jpg) I see it needs fixing. Oh well, I guess I’ll get more PE time under my belt. Thanks for pointing that out!
tread_geek
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2008
KitMaker: 2,847 posts
Armorama: 2,667 posts
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 - 04:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Radek, Well crap! Wouldn’t ya know it—the first clear photograph I come across (http://www.lonesentry.com/german_antitank/pics/xgerman_antitank11_nashorn_hornisse.jpg) DOESN’T show it, but now that I’ve dug deeper (http://ww2db.com/images/vehicle_hornisse10.jpg) I see it needs fixing. Oh well, I guess I’ll get more PE time under my belt. Thanks for pointing that out!



Gentleman, while not professing to be a Nashorn or Hornisse expert, I did quite a bit of research on both for my review of the Dragon kit offering. Basically, you are BOTH correct. There appears to have been three barrel variants for these beasts. One variant had a half circle upper clamp attached to the barrel. A second variant had a block type protrusion under the barrel. The third variant was as Keith's modification without anything on the barrel and a circular hinged clamp at the apex of the A-frame. The latter most case is the type that comes with the Dragon kit #7234. I would hazard to guess that the first two variants might have been "field modifications." In my "Panzer Colours" (Squadron/Signal) book the pictures of these beasts are split evenly between a totally smooth barrel and one with something "welded" to it. A Google image search also supports the above observations. In fact, during this search I found a fourth variant where the entire circular portion from the top of the support frame is attached to the barrel with a lug or pin protruding from the bottom.

Picture bellow of the fourth variant.

For discussion purposes only.



Without attachments



Hope this helps to confuse the issue further.

Cheers,
Jan