Armor/AFV: AA/AT/Artillery
For discussions about artillery and anti-aircraft or anti-tank guns.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M777
jjasmine
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: January 16, 2011
KitMaker: 112 posts
Armorama: 33 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 11:34 AM UTC
It's not a triple 7, but I did get this monster as an early Christmas gift.



It's a remake of an old Revell kit in 1/32. I might need to put an addition on the house just to display it!
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 12:11 PM UTC
I'm building that kit for the Art of the Battlefield campaign. If you are an artillery holic, it's a must have. Be prepared for a total lack of detail and short build time. On the other hand, it is a great base for some detail work. I can't remember who, but someone did some scratching on the truck. Unfortunately, he didn't keep any kind of build log. Of course, the wheel does raise and lower the gun. I have stopped on mine for the same reason you need to add an extra room, no space for it. I have finished kits piling up on my bench.
jjasmine
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: January 16, 2011
KitMaker: 112 posts
Armorama: 33 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 12:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm building that kit for the Art of the Battlefield campaign. If you are an artillery holic, it's a must have. Be prepared for a total lack of detail and short build time. On the other hand, it is a great base for some detail work. I can't remember who, but someone did some scratching on the truck. Unfortunately, he didn't keep any kind of build log. Of course, the wheel does raise and lower the gun. I have stopped on mine for the same reason you need to add an extra room, no space for it. I have finished kits piling up on my bench.



I did take a quick look at the sprues and noticed that there wasn't a whole lot of detail. I am looking forward to putting my scratch building techniques to the test to add as much realism as I can. I'll need to put my research skills to work first to find some reference photos and info.
jjasmine
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: January 16, 2011
KitMaker: 112 posts
Armorama: 33 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 02:00 PM UTC
Found and bookmarked this site:

http://www.theatomiccannon.com/home

Lots of great info and pictures here.
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 02:06 PM UTC
Jeffrey, this is going off topic; but if you want some more information on it, my dad should have some information. I seriously doubt any of it is classified. Send me a pm.
corsair924
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: August 11, 2008
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 322 posts
Posted: Monday, December 26, 2011 - 01:10 PM UTC


I had to wait for X-mas to get mine --

But agree the kit shows its age (1957 !!) only the MOST basic details
but leaving it as an out of the box makes for a relaxing build for this artillery addict.
Dave_Ross
Visit this Community
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: October 18, 2008
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 - 02:03 AM UTC
A little bit of news on the M777. It seems India plans to buy 145 of these guns (via the U.S. government's FSM program).

In our local paper... http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/jobs-boost-for-bae-if-india-buys-guns-1.911541?referrerPath=have-your-say
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2012 - 12:08 AM UTC
Trying to bring this back to the manufacturers' attention.
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 11:48 PM UTC
Thought I'd bring this back to the forefront. After all, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
gcdavidson
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
Armorama: 1,563 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 04:05 AM UTC
bah you tricked me, i thought'd there'd be some news. :-)

Add me to the list of trip 7 buyers.
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 04:15 AM UTC
Does anybody know of a way of contacting the manufacturers directly with a product request?
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 04:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anybody know of a way of contacting the manufacturers directly with a product request?



Email them...they all have contact emails on their sites. If you are going to contact them don't just say "pleeeeeeeeeease produce this model because it is really really really cool"....you have to articulate why it will be worth their time, effort, cost and how it will profit them.

Explain why the M777 is important to the real world and to modellers...be prepared to provide historical information and lots of reference material.

Everyone wants kits but very few will take the time to essentially create a business case to sell and idea to a model company to produce a new kit.

Finally...pick a company that will produce a quality kit in a timely manner based on their current track record of producing kits.
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 05:35 AM UTC
To all who are looking forward to this kit, I have contacted Dragon Models at www.dragoncare.com and ask that you do the same. I have not been able to locate an email address for Trumpeter, but I will be putting in a request with Tamiya and ask that you do the same.
abramstnkr
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: July 15, 2007
KitMaker: 75 posts
Armorama: 74 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 10:44 AM UTC
Email sent!!
HermannB
Visit this Community
Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 04:40 AM UTC
Hi all,

since 10 years I regularly visit the Nuremberg Toy Fair. Did a lot talk with different companies, but one thing is for sure.
Dragon has NO more intentions to do modern subjects in 1/35 scale. Sad but true. I think that other "new" companies like Trumpeter, Bronco, or Meng might be convinced- with proper references- to make the M777 or other modern artillery pieces.
But you have to expect a tooling period of about 2 years. Look around how long some kits (i.e. FMTV) have been announced.
For anyone that wants to contact Trumpeter, go to:
[email protected]
It`s worth a try
Hans-Hermann

Trisaw
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 06:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi all,

since 10 years I regularly visit the Nuremberg Toy Fair. Did a lot talk with different companies, but one thing is for sure.
Dragon has NO more intentions to do modern subjects in 1/35 scale. Sad but true. I think that other "new" companies like Trumpeter, Bronco, or Meng might be convinced- with proper references- to make the M777 or other modern artillery pieces.
But you have to expect a tooling period of about 2 years. Look around how long some kits (i.e. FMTV) have been announced.
For anyone that wants to contact Trumpeter, go to:
[email protected]
It`s worth a try
Hans-Hermann




In those 10 years, I haven't heard a good reason for the lack of modern kits from DML. Many excuses have been presented from "Not enough sales" to "Complaining about accuracy. Got fed up!" to "Copyrights and royalties for sponsor companies."

But with DML not releasing more "Special Operations Journals" and Concord books, I do wonder why. Those were some books that took the reader to places, conflicts, parts of the world, and units no other book can outside of some Japanese hobby books. Even TV doesn't go to those locales.

Any reason for no more modern Concord books?
Nitevision
Visit this Community
Bayern, Germany
Joined: April 12, 2008
KitMaker: 88 posts
Armorama: 87 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 08:43 AM UTC
The sales and returns of investments are much lower than the ones of WWII books and models and therefore not intersting for companies like DML. Take it like it is... you can sell another new Tiger I model with some small modifications much better than a model of the new M777A1 or the GTK Boxer GTFz.

Kind regards,
Ralph
abramstnkr
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: July 15, 2007
KitMaker: 75 posts
Armorama: 74 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 09:05 AM UTC
I say shenanigans! It sounds like to me that companies like DML and the sort are just being complacent and lazy. They don't want any risk involved. How will they ever know if they don't try??? Expand your market and diversify. Spend money to make money. Just my two cents.
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 02:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I say shenanigans! It sounds like to me that companies like DML and the sort are just being complacent and lazy. They don't want any risk involved. How will they ever know if they don't try??? Expand your market and diversify. Spend money to make money. Just my two cents.



Shenanigins? Nope...just good business sense. The companies are not complacement they just stick to what they know will make money...WWII German for starters.

Risk means money...lots of money for reference material, for kit engineering and design, for tooling moulds, for creating packaging, for marketing, for transport...and the list goes on.

Companies study what will sell on the market...so they won't have to lose money after a kit is released.

It is common business 101...the days of spending money to make money is gone...sticking to what traditionally sells works...sorry, but true.

How many modern towed Artillery pieces are there on the mainstream market? That may be a key indicator if you will ever see a kit of the Triple 7.
redleg12
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 11, 2007
KitMaker: 872 posts
Armorama: 831 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 02:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I say shenanigans! It sounds like to me that companies like DML and the sort are just being complacent and lazy. They don't want any risk involved. How will they ever know if they don't try??? Expand your market and diversify. Spend money to make money. Just my two cents.



Shenanigins? Nope...just good business sense. The companies are not complacement they just stick to what they know will make money...WWII German for starters.

Risk means money...lots of money for reference material, for kit engineering and design, for tooling moulds, for creating packaging, for marketing, for transport...and the list goes on.

Companies study what will sell on the market...so they won't have to lose money after a kit is released.

It is common business 101...the days of spending money to make money is gone...sticking to what traditionally sells works...sorry, but true.

How many modern towed Artillery pieces are there on the mainstream market? That may be a key indicator if you will ever see a kit of the Triple 7.



Jason, though I am on the side of wishing for the M777, like you I am a realist. Most modern kits are multiple use of similar molds, different versions of the HMMWV, Stryker, etc. Even the recent release of the m114 by Bronco or the M101A1 by AFV yielded 1 and 4 other kits respectively.

With that said and the desire for the weapon, I would be exceptionally happy to have a good resin company put out the M777. Also for that matter, the M119 also. I have built the Mouse House version but they are very hard to come by.

So, all the emails are nice but business is business, hope for the best and be happy with resin.

Rounds Complete!!
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 03:14 PM UTC
When businesses stop listening to their customers, they lose them. If everybody wanted an M1A2 with ABA(assault breaching apparatus) and they refused to take the risk, they would lose those customer's money. If they stop listening entirely, they will lose scores of potential customers. Business is business. If you refuse to take any risk, you may as well close up shop because you have become stagnant. I like Panzer IVs as much as the next addict. However, I may vomit if I see another Panzer IV F2 "x". Or, another T-62 "x". Businesses must expand based on customer demand. Becoming stagnant is lethal.
abramstnkr
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: July 15, 2007
KitMaker: 75 posts
Armorama: 74 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 04:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

When businesses stop listening to their customers, they lose them. If everybody wanted an M1A2 with ABA(assault breaching apparatus) and they refused to take the risk, they would lose those customer's money. If they stop listening entirely, they will lose scores of potential customers. Business is business. If you refuse to take any risk, you may as well close up shop because you have become stagnant. I like Panzer IVs as much as the next addict. However, I may vomit if I see another Panzer IV F2 "x". Or, another T-62 "x". Businesses must expand based on customer demand. Becoming stagnant is lethal.



That's the business model I'm talking about. I completely understand that playing it safe is always going to bring in money, but like our colleague here says, becoming stagnant is lethal. Completely agree. Honestly the last dragon/DML/cyber hobby model that I bought was an M1A2 SEP that was 3-4 years ago. And yes I do have a couple of their German pieces as well. The Sd.Kfz. 251 with the Pak 40 AT gun, Marder IIIH and a Tiger I and Tiger II with zimmerit. Dragon needs to changes just like every other company out there. So what happens when they run out of WW2 subjects?
redleg12
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 11, 2007
KitMaker: 872 posts
Armorama: 831 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 10:53 PM UTC
Hummm....this seems to be a beating for Dragons business practices....they are not the only styrene molder...what about, Bronco, Italeri, Tamiya, Trumpeter, Hobby Boss, Revell, AFV and others. Are they all stagnant?

Look at AFV who made the M40 and planned to also release the M43. I don't think the M40 has ever sold as good as they wanted so even though they have the molding items for the M43, it has never been released.

It's like they say...nothing personal, just business!

Rounds Complete!!
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 11:09 PM UTC
I intend to contact AFV Club and Trumpeter. Hobby Boss I had not considered, but will contact. Italeri is focused on aviation, right now. Perhaps Revell, though I doubt they will produce something so controversial.
Trisaw
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 05:49 AM UTC
I still kind of find this hard to believe as some of the modern plastic kits I believe sold very well to the point of being rare OOP.

In some cases, the company responds by saying, "Very interested in making this IF YOU provide and mail the photos, diagrams, blueprints, measurements, contacts, etc. for US to make a kit off of."

This has happened several times before. A civilian or soldier provided companies with great photo references and measurements and the companies made wonderfully accurate kits from that. What rapport or fallout that occurred afterwards I don't know, but I bet these modelers could still provide such information and do their part. We've all seen these modeler/representatives post here before.