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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
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Syrian T-62 Mod.72 build
BBD468
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 - 06:38 PM UTC
Hi all,

Ok gentlemen. i have done alot of chipping and im not done yet but i want to post pics of as is now. after taking pics and uploading them i suddenly thought oh SH*T what have i done! im up late, been chipping for a few hours now and i need some different eyes on this thing. keep in mind that there will be more streaking, pigments and the like which will tone the chipping down a bit but i need you guys to let me know straight up what you think of the chipping so far. i may look at it in the morning completely differently but right now im a bit worried ive F'ed this thing up and i have never once questioned myself on any other model ive ever done. but i need you guys to shoot me srtaight. What do you all think!
Phil, I feel my force is slipping to the dark side. HELP!!!
DSCF1818
DSCF1814
DSCF1816
DSCF1817
I may just have been stareing at it to long. i havent touched the turret yet and didnt finnish the rear engine deck and surounding areas but im not going to do a damn thing till i get some sleep and hear from you guys.

Gary
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 - 07:24 PM UTC
Has been getting very good Gary!

You should just add some other dark stains around the engine deck hatches. As you know paint coat on the hatches usually is quite worn, especially along the boards.
I think the main rule of chipping is not to exagerate. Your goal is depicting an operative tank, not a wreckage (otherwise you should have damaged and dented more your model). In my humble opinion you're going to the right way.

To be nitpicker, I have just a doubt about the bar on the front glacis
That bar could made in wood (especially on the early Russian types)



...or in metal



Of course, some rust stains on a wooden part would be a mistake, so you're depicting a metal bar. It would have probably been better if you had subsituted the kit part with a thinnest one made in plasticard or in aluminum foil. Your part looks made in wood because is quite thick.
However, that's just a little observation anyway, not a criticism. Your build and your paint job are really great so far

Cheers


retiredyank
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 - 09:53 PM UTC
What's going on with the corner?
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 - 10:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

What's going on with the corner?


I think nothing. Corner looks lighter because of a reflection of light on the satin surface
Karl187
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 - 11:21 PM UTC
Gary, just my $00.02: The level of chipping you have at the minute I think is just right for an operating tank, as Mauro has said. If you make the chipping any more extensive or heavy in the areas where it is already present you do run the risk of making it look unrealistically worn- i.e. too worn for it to be an effective operational machine.
asmodeuss
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 12:28 AM UTC
This chipping is on the spot Gary! And indeed, I think you should not go further.
Awesome build!

Phil.
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 01:48 AM UTC
If you never question yourself, until now, I think your instincts might be right this time.

For me personally, I think you may have gone too far. I think your technique is great. Better than anything I've been able to do. I just think it's overdone. And a little too consistent throughout the entire model. Every panel is chipped basically the same amount. Sure, it's random, and the chips are very small and delicate, which is great, but there's no variation to the overall amount of chipping. There's no obvious "this is the way they mounted the tank, and that is WHY this part is chipped more than this other part.

That said, I know the final result is going to be awesome, and any time any of us mess up, is how we actually learn.




And of course, let me throw this in.

This is just my opinion. That is YOUR plastic tank, and you can paint the damn thing pink if you want.
BBD468
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 04:05 AM UTC
Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks so much to everyone for your responces and your support. looking at it with fresh eyes this morning it doesnt look as bad as i was seeing it last night with tired eyes and mind. while i think i will still be able to finnish with a reasonably realistic T62, and i really respect everyones advise and input on this i have to agree with Jesse and his assesment. i dont think ive ruined the model but i do think ive gone a bit farther than id like with the chipping. i consentrated too much on every little section without keeping in mind the overall look when all the little sections were looked at as a whole. if that makes sense.
anyways im gonna step away today and reassess how im going forward from here. If anyone has any advise or ideas, please feel free to give me a shout.
Thanks again to everyone.

Gary
Karl187
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 04:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks so much to everyone for your responces and your support. looking at it with fresh eyes this morning it doesnt look as bad as i was seeing it last night with tired eyes and mind. while i think i will still be able to finnish with a reasonably realistic T62, and i really respect everyones advise and input on this i have to agree with Jesse and his assesment. i dont think ive ruined the model but i do think ive gone a bit farther than id like with the chipping. i consentrated too much on every little section without keeping in mind the overall look when all the little sections were looked at as a whole. if that makes sense.
anyways im gonna step away today and reassess how im going forward from here. If anyone has any advise or ideas, please feel free to give me a shout.
Thanks again to everyone.

Gary


Gary- I can see where Jesse is coming from, its an interesting observation and an important one to keep in mind when weathering. But what you have to bare in mind is that at this early stage of weathering the chips are going to appear extremely stark. With subsequent weathering the overral look will be toned down and if you feel some areas are out of sync then some different or more weathering effects can help to break up that look (you could say 'hide' because, after all, weathering/dirt on a real vehicle will hide certain details).

I have totally done this myself before, getting a bit chip-happy. You take a step back and think 's*** I've messed that up'- but taking the time to think about where to go next and to really carefully consider the finished look you want to achieve really does help.

I hope this helps you out a bit mate!
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 04:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks so much to everyone for your responces and your support. looking at it with fresh eyes this morning it doesnt look as bad as i was seeing it last night with tired eyes and mind. while i think i will still be able to finnish with a reasonably realistic T62, and i really respect everyones advise and input on this i have to agree with Jesse and his assesment. i dont think ive ruined the model but i do think ive gone a bit farther than id like with the chipping. i consentrated too much on every little section without keeping in mind the overall look when all the little sections were looked at as a whole. if that makes sense.
anyways im gonna step away today and reassess how im going forward from here. If anyone has any advise or ideas, please feel free to give me a shout.
Thanks again to everyone.

Gary

It is always good to take a step back and critique your build. I had to lay off my panzer for some time, while I decided how to proceed. Patience is a virtue in this hobby. And, planning is key.
BBD468
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 04:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks so much to everyone for your responces and your support. looking at it with fresh eyes this morning it doesnt look as bad as i was seeing it last night with tired eyes and mind. while i think i will still be able to finnish with a reasonably realistic T62, and i really respect everyones advise and input on this i have to agree with Jesse and his assesment. i dont think ive ruined the model but i do think ive gone a bit farther than id like with the chipping. i consentrated too much on every little section without keeping in mind the overall look when all the little sections were looked at as a whole. if that makes sense.
anyways im gonna step away today and reassess how im going forward from here. If anyone has any advise or ideas, please feel free to give me a shout.
Thanks again to everyone.

Gary


Gary- I can see where Jesse is coming from, its an interesting observation and an important one to keep in mind when weathering. But what you have to bare in mind is that at this early stage of weathering the chips are going to appear extremely stark. With subsequent weathering the overral look will be toned down and if you feel some areas are out of sync then some different or more weathering effects can help to break up that look (you could say 'hide' because, after all, weathering/dirt on a real vehicle will hide certain details).

I have totally done this myself before, getting a bit chip-happy. You take a step back and think 's*** I've messed that up'- but taking the time to think about where to go next and to really carefully consider the finished look you want to achieve really does help.

I hope this helps you out a bit mate!


Hey Karl,

Thanks man! It does help me out, alot! I value your Knowledge and advise Karl. I will make this right for myself. i also need to learn to shut things down a bit earlier and not pull the late nighters. probably blurs the judgment.

Hi Matt,

You are absolutly right! that is a great piece of advise man. Thanks

Gary
dvarettoni
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 06:31 AM UTC
Gary I think that. Karl is spot on once that you have the rest of the weathering do you will see that you have to gone to far. I think that we have all had some late nights at the table that we might regret keep it up were still with you
Dave
BBD468
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 07:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gary I think that. Karl is spot on once that you have the rest of the weathering do you will see that you have to gone to far. I think that we have all had some late nights at the table that we might regret keep it up were still with you
Dave


Hey David,

Thanks man! you guys have been great and i appreciate you sticking with me. Best lessons in life are sometimes learned the hard way and i guess that apllies to modeling as well.

Gary
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 07:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If you never question yourself, until now, I think your instincts might be right this time.

For me personally, I think you may have gone too far. I think your technique is great. Better than anything I've been able to do. I just think it's overdone. And a little too consistent throughout the entire model. Every panel is chipped basically the same amount. Sure, it's random, and the chips are very small and delicate, which is great, but there's no variation to the overall amount of chipping. There's no obvious "this is the way they mounted the tank, and that is WHY this part is chipped more than this other part.

That said, I know the final result is going to be awesome, and any time any of us mess up, is how we actually learn.




And of course, let me throw this in.

This is just my opinion. That is YOUR plastic tank, and you can paint the damn thing pink if you want.


Looking at your outstanding jobs I think your opinion is very reliable Jesse, but I don't completely agree with you

Do you remeber the reference pics which Ed has posted at the beginning ot the thread?











As you can see the tank is incredibly worn and has lots of stains and "chipped" areas. As I said before, the Gary's goal it shouldn't be to depict a vehicle so ruined, but anyway, considering the reference pics I think we can't say that he's gone too far. We also have to consider that if Gary apply another filter (to be honest I don't know...what about Gary?), the chipping effect will be for sure attenuate.After that he will be also able to add more variations .Regarding the chipping consistence, well I think is good so far. In my very humble opinion (I wish I was as skilled as you and Gary! )he could just make some other efforts around the engine deck hatches.

Just my two cents anyway

cheers
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 09:09 AM UTC
Like I said, it's all an opinion. We post photos on forums looking for feedback. People tend to be overly nice in my opinion. I'm very happy with Mauro or others with lots of references commented on my projects. I'm sure Gary understands that I'm not trying to speak poorly of his work, but just offering an opinion.

Also, I don't know if Gary is looking for the tank to look like it did in 1973, or 1983, or in 2003. Obviously, the amount of wear is going to be different throughout the life of the tank. I'm a bit weary of using museum/warehouse photos to get accurate 'in action' ideas for weathering.

I think Gary could just go back selectively and cover some scratches in various areas and everything would be great. He obviously has the skills to make it happen.
asmodeuss
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 09:11 AM UTC
My two cents: whitout artistic interpretation a model as no more interest than a picture representing what is. This is a representation of what one want to tell. A narative 3d depiction of one's story. So I'm currious to see what that superbly bald brain of his want to tell me. But I am a creative kind of guy and understands that accuracy is also a great matter.
Anyway I'm kind of in the middle on this one

Phil
asmodeuss
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 09:20 AM UTC
Opinion are essential, if we all just agree there wil be no progres.

This thread is really my daily rendez-vous to discuss model matter! I just love it. Sorry Gary if I step in a little on your thread but you are kind of a gatherer.

MACE BOGGS THE GATHERER!

Gary keep it up!
Phil
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 09:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Like I said, it's all an opinion. We post photos on forums looking for feedback. People tend to be overly nice in my opinion. I'm very happy with Mauro or others with lots of references commented on my projects. I'm sure Gary understands that I'm not trying to speak poorly of his work, but just offering an opinion.

Also, I don't know if Gary is looking for the tank to look like it did in 1973, or 1983, or in 2003. Obviously, the amount of wear is going to be different throughout the life of the tank. I'm a bit weary of using museum/warehouse photos to get accurate 'in action' ideas for weathering.

I think Gary could just go back selectively and cover some scratches in various areas and everything would be great. He obviously has the skills to make it happen.


Yes Jesse yours is a constructive criticism, I haven't any doubt about We just have two different opinions about the Gary's chipping process...

....So now Gary is up to you! Who's right?



Cheers
BBD468
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 02:48 PM UTC
Hello gentlemen,

Seems we have a nice spirited discussion going while i was busy.
Hey guys, im not gonna say who's right or who's wrong. I asked for everyones straight and honest opinion and i feel like you all gave me exactly that, and you all did. and i really appreciate you guys for everything you have contributed to this thread. I cant tell you how much fun this has been for me. My buddy Phil has had me laughing my ass off.
I will say this, I feel much better about the chipping now. did i overdo it? i think yes. Had i to do it all over again i would back off on the chipping. Having said that, im not going to undo what is already done and im gonna make the best of it.
I have worked on it today. I did finish the chipping and apllied a filter of raw umber with a hint of burnt sienna.
once dry a did some pigment and mineral spirits washes. and when that dried i sprayed another filter of the raw umber mix. this is what i have now.
DSCF1831
DSCF1834
DSCF1832
I still have to finish the fuel drums and im going to add a few rust spots and streaks, some fuel and oil stains. and various little things here and there.
Once again gentlemen give it to me straght, is it better or no? my opinion is, im much happier now than last night and i feel back on track. im gonna complete the hull before i move to the turret.

Oh Phil! "superbly bald brain", I see you have pinpointed the secret source of my power! If i grow hair the "FORCE" will be lost, and my modeling skill with it. DO NOT DIVULGE THIS IMFORMATION TO ANYONE!!!
Thanks Guys!

Gary "Mace" Boggs - the Gatherer
BBD468
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 05:19 PM UTC
Hi all,

I have made some fuel stains and some minor rust spots and streaks. I want to make some oil stains on the engine deck.
Question? what area or engine hatches would have the biggest chance of having oil spilled on them through engine maintenance and the like?
going to bed so heres what i got right now.
DSCF1835
DSCF1836
DSCF1837
Thanks for looking! good night.

Gary
C_JACQUEMONT
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 06:13 PM UTC
Love it so far, personally I find your finish quite restrained in its weathering and extremely realistic. And I'm a guy who's normally in the "less is more" section of the weathering brigade.

Looking forward to the next steps.

Cheers,

Christophe
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 10:37 PM UTC
Another masterpiece Gary.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 11:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Question? what area or engine hatches would have the biggest chance of having oil spilled on them through engine maintenance and the like?


Well, actually you can hardly see oil spilled on the engine deck. Considering the engine position (under the larger hatch) seeing oil spilled on the deck would it mean that it has burned out and has splatterd the oil everywhere

Usually there is just a lot of dirt in the recesses

http://dishmodels.ru/wshow.htm?mode=P&vmode=T&p=1198&id=33376&tp=w

http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx88/kruppw/T-62M/21.jpg?t=1296438317

It's more probably to see some fuel stains around the extra fuel cells, the pipes and, of corse, the barrels

I agree with Matt. That's a masterpiece indeed Gary
asmodeuss
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Posted: Friday, March 16, 2012 - 12:42 AM UTC
Exquisite work Gary!
Phil
BBD468
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Posted: Friday, March 16, 2012 - 05:34 AM UTC
Hi gentlemen,

Thanks everyone for your very kind words!

Mauro - I agree, i guess the crew would have to be pretty drunk to spill a significant amount of oil in ares where it shouldnt be. ill skip the oil stains there and put them where they belong, the barrels/drums!

Gary
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