Armor/AFV
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Waiting for a new Deuce and a Half
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 12:18 AM UTC
Did you see this thread that includes many great crane pics :

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14112&highlight=aircraft+crane

like this one :



BTW it looks like the AWM caption was wrong regarding the location...

Here's a better view of the "Australian cab" :



H.P.
165thspc
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 01:33 AM UTC
Frenchy that is a great site which then leads to other links.

Apparently this design is referred to as a "G-Well" crane.

My question would be; how did they power the driveshaft that went up to the winches on the crane. Did they use the engine PTO as they did to power the front winch? GMC did make an alternate PTO who's output shaft went to the rear to drive the hydraulic pump for the dump truck. But I don't think the PTO would be heavy duty enough to run this crane. Then I thought of the two output shafts coming off the rear of the transfer case but the GMC would have no way to mechanically disengage just one shaft, putting the rest of the vehicle in neutral, to drive the crane????

The CMP trucks drove their winch from a PTO that DID come off the rear of the transfer case so not problem there but how the heck GMC did it without making some special power take off I cannot say.

If you permanently disengaged one rear axle and swaped the CMP transfer case for the GM product you could do it that way!

I hope that all made some sense???

Enquiring minds would like to know???
Bigred69
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 01:39 AM UTC
Hi Michael, is this going to be you next project?

Ronnie
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 02:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Apparently this design is referred to as a "G-Well" crane.



I've noticed that as well in the mentioned thread, so the Le Tourneau track was probably a wrong one...

H.P.
165thspc
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 05:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Michael, is this going to be you next project?

Ronnie



Do not know what construction order this one will fall into but I can tell you it's in the lineup as of now!

I found a lot more reference photos of the crane on line and all I need now is to answer the question of just how the mechanical power was routed from the CCKW engine up to the lifting structure. The upper and lower boom structures will be no problem to build as long as my LHS keeps stocking the Evergreen & Plastistrut!
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 12:46 AM UTC
Ronnie - I know it has been awhile since this thread was updated but how 'bout a photo of one of these cranes still in service today? Also, Please know that I am cutting angle iron for the build (Evergreen plastic "ELLs") as we speak.


The Peters Bros. Articulated G-Well Crane
Bigred69
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Posted: Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 02:13 AM UTC
Mike, if and when you build this Beast, it will be an interesting sight to see.
panamadan
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Posted: Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 02:18 AM UTC
Im here today and there are a few 2 1/2 tons here.
http://heartlandmuseum.com/index.php
Dan
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2018 - 10:06 PM UTC
HURRY, HURRY, HURRY!

If you have been looking for an inexpensive hard cab for your next GMC Deuce project here is your chance.

Up for sale on eBay with a $17.95 Buy It Now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201-2-5ton-6x6-US-Water-Tank-truck-D-Day-ITALERI-1-35-plastic-model-kit-/253597271414?hash=item3b0b934576

berwickj
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2018 - 03:04 AM UTC
Here's a strange one for you. Courtesy of Marcos Serra:

165thspc
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Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 - 02:37 AM UTC
WOW that is a half track and a half!
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 - 03:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

WOW that is a half track and a half!



Only takes a Deuce and the running gear from three Bren carriers to make one .... alternatively one Windsor carrier and one Bren carrier ....

Broncos Loyd carrier has another type of wheels ...
165thspc
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Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 - 11:04 AM UTC
It surprises me they made that rear carriage as long as they did.

I suspect the designers simply took the recommended load capacity of each pair of road wheel springs and divided that into the hoped for carrying load capacity (2 1/2 tons I imagine) and determined they needed a total of 3 road wheel sets on each side to match that load rating.

Still looks to be a bit of an odd bird. (IMHO)
vettejack
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Posted: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 01:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Did you see this thread that includes many great crane pics :

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14112&highlight=aircraft+crane

like this one :



BTW it looks like the AWM caption was wrong regarding the location...

Here's a better view of the "Australian cab" :



H.P.



OMG, that Peter's Bros Articulated "G-Well" crane...man...that is one ucking fugly vehicle. Gonna have to build it perhaps!!
165thspc
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Posted: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 04:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text


OMG, that Peter's Bros Articulated "G-Well" crane...man...that is one ucking fugly vehicle. Gonna have to build it perhaps!!



Totally agree - I have the basic truck and then started on the boom a few months back but got sidetracked with other model projects! Hope to get back to it soon!
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 06:14 AM UTC

(I added this real plane to the photo of a real crane using Photoshop.)

Still having problems figuring out the drive for the crane. I know a drive shaft comes up the central pivot axis of the crane from a 90 degree gearbox below. It runs up to drive a two drum winch that controls the boom elevation and to spool the hook cable in and out.

My confusion is this:
- #1. does the bottom drive come off a rear facing PTO on the transmission, or off a specialized or modified transfer case?
- #2. In a 3-axle truck are all three axles still powered or has one been uncoupled to drive the crane?
- #3. can the driver control the upper winch unit from the driver's seat and if so, how is this accomplished?
- #4. if not then how is the crane winch controlled? **

** At first I thought this crane always employed a soft top cab and that the driver could just reach up to move control levers coming down for above but I have since seen some of these cranes using hardtop cabs.

165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 06:58 AM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text

Did you see this thread that includes many great crane pics :

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14112&highlight=aircraft+crane




Tried to register for this site so I might get my G-Well questions answered but after 15 tries on their registration form I gave up. Something is not working correctly on their site, either that or their website software doesn't play well with Apple Computers.

(I later searched out the site on my own and for some reason registering there worked perfectly. Just waiting now for my admin approval to come back via e-mail.)
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 07:17 AM UTC
Here is the latest entry regarding the G-Well Crane on the "Maple Leaf Up" site:

_____________________________________

(quote)

Some more information regarding the big crane. Happy to see more interested on this! Thanks to Mr Damian Rigby!

"The crane PTO is off the side of the main gearbox and goes through an angle drive then up to a 3-speed gearbox on the crane itself."

G_Mendes (quote)
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 07:39 AM UTC
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 - 08:31 PM UTC
First mentioned this one way back on page 10 of this thread (some 5+ years ago) but just now getting back around to it.

I would be lying through my teeth but do you think I could get away with entering this in a model competition saying that it represented GM's very first prototype "proof of concept" hand built AFKWX?

In truth I just wanted a Cab Over Engine Deuce and didn't want to pay the big bucks $$$ for a resin model.

I doubt I have the stones to try something like that at a contest - maybe just enter it in the "Fantasy" class.

It is still a work in progress but it now only lacks headlights and cab interior for completion.


This model consists of a standard Tamiya Deuce chassis and drive train, two load boxes shortened and then joined together, the standard Deuce open cab and the fenders and much shortened hood of a Long Range Desert Truck. At least the model is ALL General Motors and ALL Tamiya!





165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 - 08:34 PM UTC
This is what the REAL vehicle looks like:

Bleusaille
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Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 - 01:35 AM UTC
That a fact that the LRDG is a Chevrolet, not a GMC, and the front is really different....

The G 4103 "Stake and Platform" COE 1 1/2 Ton 4x4 K33 or K54 does have that front, (the 1942 Chevrolet "Bulldog" too I think), but it also have only one wheel-train on the back !!...

As a lot of "Chevy"....
Pascal
165thspc
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Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 - 05:18 AM UTC
Pascal I acknowledge your comments, however . . . .


- I am not going to split hairs here as to the question "is Chevy different from GM?".

- I have always clearly admitted (and pointed out) that the front cowl on this vehicle is a concocted fantasy, that was lifted from my "spares" box and built as a substitute for other extremely expensive resin offerings.

- My ultimate point here is to again raise the question as to why very large and established plastic manufactures (Tamiya**) who already have a large percentage of the tooling for a given model vehicle in hand refuse to produce additional versions of said vehicles; (i.e. short wheelbase, extended wheelbase, dump, compressor, COE, fire truck, etc., etc., etc.)

Hence the thread title: "Waiting for a New Deuce and a Half".



** HobbyBoss (covered elsewhere in this thread) comes closer to this stated goal but unfortunately the cab and fenders of their offerings are seriously flawed and the company continues to churn out additional versions that only compound these errors.
Bleusaille
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Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 - 07:47 AM UTC
And the answer is always the same : Money-Money-Money....
a "complete" mould for a kit costs between 5.000 (1/72) and 8.000 $ (1/35) for a basic kit....Just for the mould, but you have to add the cost for the research, the 3D graphic designer", etc...
The time is gone where an approximative Kit was on sale, today, everybody can ask somebody anywhere in town and it's very "easy" to ban a "new kit" !!...
All in All, 10.000 $ are not a lot for a "big" company like Tamiya, but the "managers" think also that they have to sale a "lot" of that kit to make a good profitability. If it goes, that worth it, but if you don't sale the kit, so.....The companies got "cold feet" and prefer offer us old kits that we already know, it's safer !!
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 - 08:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

And the answer is always the same : Money-Money-Money....
a "complete" mould for a kit costs between 5.000 (1/72) and 8.000 $ (1/35) for a basic kit....Just for the mould, but you have to add the cost for the research, the 3D graphic designer", etc...
The time is gone where an approximative Kit was on sale, today, everybody can ask somebody anywhere in town and it's very "easy" to ban a "new kit" !!...
All in All, 10.000 $ are not a lot for a "big" company like Tamiya, but the "managers" think also that they have to sale a "lot" of that kit to make a good profitability. If it goes, that worth it, but if you don't sale the kit, so.....The companies got "cold feet" and prefer offer us old kits that we already know, it's safer !!



But occasionally they give us new kits.
Tamiya produce new kits, not often but it happens.
When they sit there in the decision making room they could ask themselves:
Shall we:
1. produce a complete set of new moulds for a kit of B
2. Should we add half a sprue to kit A to produce variant A1?
Tough decision, a complete set of moulds costs this much, a half sprue costs a lot less.

I know there are other costs and the A1 variant might not be hugely popular but the investment is a lot smaller and nobody knows how well kit B will sell.
Italeri had figured out the benefits of making variants
and the "new" Chinese companies are experts at it (Dragons German armour is only one example). There is also the T-5x/T-4x series from Miniart. If the first set of molds is designed correctly it is easier to make variants.
Sometimes, as with HB's Deuce, we get the same mistakes repackaged in new boxes (life is a lady sometimes).
Making variants also appeals to the collector genes in humans, "Collect the whole set" is used in many markets.
/ Robin