I was just thinking (and we all know how THAT turns out ), a tank need protection from infantry in front of it. Having a machine gun emplacement on the glacis is great but taking into consideration the fenders on this thing are slightly larger than a 1959 Cadillac's, that gun will have a very limited field of fire. So enter my though, "What is a German war designer to do to arm the tank?" Well, why not have gun emplacements the front of the track housings in a small blister? Something similar to a M3 Lee's main gun housing. It'd be like a gunner would slip into this housing after climbing down something like an enclosed ladder from maybe a passage way from some kind of compartment. It is quite German when you think about it.

Holy Sh**, I don't know how I missed this, it is so awesome. Well good luck with the rest and hope you find enough space for it when finished .


Kind regards, Sven.

Mike, the MG positions for the front and rear will be on the track housings. The only weapon (right now) on the glacis will be the 88 or 75.

I have considered something like the gun/MG positions that were on the WWI Mark IV Male/Female. I want this to attempt to conform to the "expected/designed/considered" sketches...I don't want it to look like a porcupine. Plenty of time to work this all out.

Hey Sven, grab a seat! I'm always looking for thoughts and comments. I might have room on top of the cabinet I'm building...but then again, it may become a coffee table (tho the wife won't appreciate my version of decorating!

Dave, if I can come up with 8 of the MG mounts like a Tiger I, they'll go down the center (length wise) of each side...most likely with two above and two below the center line.

One other thing to consider; the Beast will be augmented by two Heinrich's - quad barreled Flak Walkers (that's the 1946/47 piece of this). Pretty sure those would tear the snot out of infantry and light/medium armor.

(In reality, assuming I can afford it, there will be one physical Heinrich. The second will only have a ramp showing where it would be "stored.")

More to follow.

Mike

Man, and I thought I had an original idea.. lol. Well, good luck with it. Still like the idea of large blisters for the MGs on the front.

I'd like to make a suggestion that you do a general interior diagram before you start adding to much.

What enigines are you using? E boat or U boat? How much fuel? Think in tons rather than gallons or liters. Also don't forget about water for cooling. How is the main turret set up? How are the main rounds and propellant stored and handled? Secondary ammunition stored and handle? Command center rather than a simple drivers comaprtment? Crew quarters?

I think you might run out of space pretty fast.

I really like your build.

Steve

Steve,

Valid questions - questions that lend "authenticity" to this build.

What enigines are you using? E boat or U boat? How much fuel? Think in tons rather than gallons or liters. Also don't forget about water for cooling.

The engines would most likely be from UBoats. Fuel? H2O? Good question. I can safely figure that 1/3rd of the back end (behind the main turret) would be liquid storage. If I'm OTF, let me know.

How is the main turret set up? How are the main rounds and propellant stored and handled?

Very similar to how it was set up on the battleship. I believe the height is close, maybe some modifications to that. Power for the turret, guns, powder elevator, ammo conveyor, et cetera would all be contained in or near the turret. It's ammo, prop charges, fuzes, and the like would be stored below the turret (a "built in" magazine?).

Secondary ammunition stored and handle?

Each weapon system would have it's own magazine. MAUS and Kugelblitz magazines on each side. Additionally, a small arms magazine on each side too along with basic ammo storage for each MG position. The small gun on the glacis would have ammo storage next to it. Really not sure what the UBL would be for each system, but I think there's enough room around them for that and maybe more.

Command center rather than a simple drivers comaprtment? Crew quarters?

I figured the command center for the main gun would be in just below the turret. CC for the secondary arms below the TC's stations in each track housing (which would include control of the Heinrich's). Crew compartments would be between the turret and Hein-bays and behind the bays...set up like a ship or sub...on top of each other. And a hallway running to the back down each side with access to the magazines and turrets.

Hmmmmm.....maybe?

The only other arms I do want to add are the MG points along the sides (in the "hallways" so anyone can access them with brackets for 3 or 4 additional cans of ammo).

Other than liquid storage, I don't think that's too far fetched (?).

Mike

Thought about some of these for those pesky Russian grunts:

Mines

Probably four sets?

Mike

Mike

As I recall, the beast was to be powered by U Boat engines, and one was actually delivered before the project was cancelled.

Regards

Rob

Are we talkin' "beer cellar" or schnapps storage? Probably plenty room for both...

Mike,
Great work. I'm enjoying the build and the logic behind its development. I could see a Flettner Fl 265 or Fl 282 landing on the rear or turret top and used as a scout/observation vehicle.

Would this be crewed by Navy? Or maybe a mix? I think Dragon had a figure set of German Naval Infantry.

The mines...s-mines...is a good idea. My first thought was that they'd probably use the close-in antipersonnel mortars that you see on later war vehicles. But then I had to think of them mounting those and trying to cut the holes through the armor. So with that thick hide, the old S-mines system is probably the best option.

Again, great work and it'll be something to see this beast continue to take shape.

Excellent question! I hadn't really thought about figures past the two commanders. Mix definitely makes sense. I'm not a Figgie guy; scares the crap outta me. But, maybe it'll be time to "model man" up, eh?

Went looking for that Naval set Alex, and came up with this:



The combined figure would make good sense and be a nice contrast to a regular Army commander on the other side. Or, I can add a hatch to the roof of the turret for him. Thought about doing that anyway...kind of like the hatch on a conning tower with just a rail around it (an OP if you will).

Tom, I have some 200L barrels. 3 for a good Weissen and 2 for Schnapps. And to make it a nice stackable set up, 1 for wine too.

Been working on the base for the turret. I have a sheet of 1/16th inch stock that will fit it...just trying to decide how to do the four corners. (I'll post a pic or two later).

Mike

Here's a link to a thread on u-boat fuel consuption that might be interesting.


http://uboat.net/forums/read.php?20,65180,65198

You'll need to cut and paste the link.

SteveB, did I see right: 154,000 Kg of fuel for a sub?? Jeez...may need to leave the wine and Schnapps off!

I've done a bit more than these show (added some of the "roof"):





And marked where I think I'll put the two front commander's hatches.

Mike

Mike,
You could probably mix up branches of service for the crew. Maybe naval personnel for the gun and gunnery control. Maybe even Luftwaffe personnel for the anti-aircraft crews. Overall control, probably SS or GD.

You'll probably need an engineering staff onboard as well.

I figure that this would be a pretty high visible/high prestige weapon. The various branches would be clawing to get their branches involved. Weren't the antiaircraft guns aboard the Bismark crewed by Luftwaffe personnel?

Oh, Alex...if I could find one of these in 1/35th (or even 1/32nd)!!! That really would be neat!!



I wonder. Assuming I'm going to put this beast on a base so my Walker can "walk," how would a 1/48th Flettner Fl 265 look at three or four feet above it??

Mike

I saw this on Scalemates. They are out of business but you never know what might be out there.
1:32 Flettner Fl.265 (Accu-Scale 3265)Flettner Fl.265
Accu-Scale 1:32

Speaking of crew you probably could add a couple of engineer and mechanical types. If figure this thing would need constant mechanical supervision even under normal operations. It's basically a warship with tracks.

Mike,
I work as a flight engineer on RCAF SAR helo's (CH149 cormorants). We have 5 fuel bays onboard, and. Each one holds just over 800kgs of fuel, for a total of about 4200kg. The tanks are slightly larger than a coffin, and located in the floors. I'm on vacation right now, but return to work on Tuesday. I can get exact measurements of the tanks so you can get a rough idea of the size of fuel bays you will need.
Remember, the beast would not have to carry much fuel. Enough to maybe cover 100 miles or so? If you think of naval terms, there would probably be a support convoy located relatively close (20 or 30 miles back?) that could move forward when needed to fuel up the beast. Maybe a dozen or so large tanker trucks?
I see your point about the support vehicles for anti-infantry support. Something this large (naval terms again) would probably have multi layered defence, like a modern carrier or carriers in the Pacific in WW 2 needing screening from subs and kamikaze attacks:
-small fighter squadron that is tasked with anti aircraft screening 20 miles out
-recon units for scouting ways ahead and keeping eyes out for enemy infantry and armour
-highly mobile anti aircraft units with 88's, 30mm and 20 mm cannon stationed in a ring around the beast, , maybe 10 miles out. These would also need infantry and some armour support for protection
-a fast mobile mechanized infantry and armoured squadron, sort of a "fire brigade" that can rush out to blunt an attack before it starts
-alast layer of defence would be the beasts integral vehicles and weapons
Just my thoughts......

I just looked at the theard I post in more detail. Here are some figures.

165 -180grams per hp per hour

So figuring you would use the supercharged engines 3200 HP then the figures look like 170x3200 x24=13,056,000 grams.

13,056,000/1000=13,056kilos

13,056/2.2=5,934lbs

Diesel weighs about 7.7 lbs/gal

5934/7.7=770 gal/day@80% (?) RPM

What would the fuel consumption be would still be a guess. Uboat engines could idle at very low RPMs. Under load with a land vehicle this large I would look at some of the large earth moving equipment in use with the understanding that it is more efficient.

I might suggest an aux generator be added to the mix.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Dave, I think your thoughts on the Beast's "caravan" is on. Thank goodness I'm not modeling all that!!

SteveB, your calculations look good to this landlubber. My Dad was an Electrician's Mate on the Hawkbill (SS366)...too bad I can't ask him (he's been gone many years now).

So, roughly 6000 pounds of fuel a day? Sounds reasonable consider some of the modern armor get crap for mileage - it's gallons to the mile. lol.

I think there's room enough for fuel for 100 miles.

Mike

It was proposed that power would be provided from two submarine engines and so looking up the fuel capacity of a German U-boat should give you a ballpark figure.

Instead of a Flettner, how about - http://www.model-making.eu/products/Focke-Achgelis-Fa-330-5659917.html

It needs to be towed. Was tried on a few subs during the war.

That would have been perfect Mike C...if it didn't have to be towed.

Read up on it and watched a vid or two. Pretty neat but not thinking the Ratte would move fast enough for it.

Cool though. Thanks for that link.

Mike

For fuel just distribute smaller fuel tanks throughout the hull. Add a number of armored fuel caps on the rear engine deck. It would probably help with potential fire issues as well as help with weight distribution.

On that topic^. In aircraft, you can switch between your various fuel tanks. So when the fuel level gets too low or reaches a certain level you can simply switch to a different tank. I'm not familiar with sea going craft but I'll assume that there's a similar system in use. So in this way the fuel tanks serve multiple purposes (plural purpi?). They act as fuel containers, obviously, but they also provide the proper balance or center of gravity. And in some cases they act as ballast as well.

Now, in my thinking, it would seem realistic that if this were to have many smaller fuel tanks instead of a few larger ones, it would make sense to have some kind of system like this to either transfer fuel from one tank to another or to switch from tank to tank to keep the fuel levels relatively even and keep the CoG relatively stable, even with a vehicle with such a large footprint as this would have comparative to its height.