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Dioramas
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Ardennes--another one!!
jrutman
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 11:28 AM UTC
Slapped this building together over the past 2 days for my next vignette in the magical mystical Ardennes with the 82nd Abn.
This is the back of the garage in the center of Cheneux,or a reasonable facsimily thereof.



The tree is just there for scale effect as this will be in the winter of course!!
And so it goes.
Romain,just for you,I looked at color pics taken in modern days of the buildings and I think my color palette is pretty close as far as the stones go. Sandstone door posts and lintle of course! Once again,all is plaster,even the wood beams. Not done weathering the door yet so don't pile on!!
J
J
Removed by original poster on 01/05/14 - 00:46:11 (GMT).
Scale_Mason
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 04:16 PM UTC
Lovely work! What colors did you use for the stones? Or did you custom mix them? I have been trying to paint this type of stone but can't get the color right...
roudeleiw
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 08:41 PM UTC
Jerry, I am not Romain but live pretty close to where he once lived ! LOL

I know where you get your inspiration from. I just googled some pictures of sandstone (put in sandstein fenster) and indeed saw some of the same colour you made. Now I must say that that colour is at least for me not often seen around here. I can't remember seeing even one.
Sandstone around the Ardennes is more of the very light coloured species, sand, beige and eventually a very light grey.
For now I would say to heavily dry-brush your whole façade with those lighter colours and see where it leads you.
Wait what Romain says about this, but I at least would prefer those lighter colours.

Greets
Claude

kurnuy
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 10:08 PM UTC
Hello Jerry ,

cool , looking forward to see more of this!

Greetings ,

Kurt
1stjaeger
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 10:17 PM UTC

Hi Jerry, hi Claude,

you are putting a big responsibility on my shoulders!!

Claude is right regarding the colours of the sandstone. Look at this site http://www.carriereschauss.be/de/produits.html

It is the quarry where my parents got their material from when they built our house.
As you can see, the material is light in colours.

All in all, buildings made of sandstone would almost exclusively have been churches or official buildings like town halls and schools back in those days.

You have to remember that the Ardennes always were a poor region (and stil are in comparison). All the Luxembourgers who emigrated were from the Ardennes, not because they didn't like the view, but rather because the soil was not that fertile and there was hunger from time to time. Without any prospects, many people just had no alternative.

Fachwerk is generally not the type of construction you will find in the Ardennes, but the closer you get to Germany (east of Eupen towards Monschau) the more you will encounter.

People in lux and belgian Ardennes were rather poor and used whatever material was cheap...and that was slate. Look at Claude's diorama and you will see what I mean.

Sandstone means that the slabs have to be cut by hand and are thus expensive. My grandfather had a business for facades and plasterwork..and his house was (and still is ) built from slate.

Should you want to stick to the lattice/sandstone version, you should follow Claude's advice and lighten up the colours a bit (a real shame bacause I love your palette!!!!) and above all add a step in front of the door.

I would not leave the lattice part in these colours either. This is "nice" modern lattice, with walls and wooden beams set apart in chiaro/scuro . This was certainly not so in poor regions with rough climate. The beams would be weathered to grey, and the walls would be dirtier.

Apart from the above, I love your stonework. It looks fantastic and I would welcome it for mid- to southerh Germany anytime!!

Cheers

Romain
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 10:37 PM UTC
Hi Jerry,

Looks great!
Just a few photos shown and already a discussion started!
I like the look of your house. Having seen your other projects, I am convinced that you will blend it into the rest of the dio.

By the way: what will be the theme? Yes "Ardennes", but what action and items?

If one googles " ardennen huizen" and searches for "pictures", various colors turn up. From rather 'newish' yellow to middle age buildings in all sorts of grey. Another way is to search for " fermes en ardennes" . Also, the so called Fachwerk is not uncommon. The use of Fachwerkstructures can be seen in the most southern part of the Netherlands, around Maastricht and goes further south, deep into the Ardennes.
One thing should be kept in mind: sand stone is rather soft and tends to lose its sharp edges during the time. Furthermore, due to its softness, it allows all sorts of small plants, farn and moss, to grow.
So, all together, what you started will certainly lead to something very inspiring and beautiful again.

Looking forward,

P.
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 03:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Lovely work! What colors did you use for the stones? Or did you custom mix them? I have been trying to paint this type of stone but can't get the color right...


Hi Chris,
Thanks for the kind words. The colors were done with Vallejo. They were all mixed on my very expensive piece of scrap plastic that now has about 30mm of layers of dry paint on it! Heehee.
The deep brown was earth brown and the greys were different blends of dark grey and white. The lighter colors were mixed from white and buff. The sandstone(this is around the door only,the rest is NOT sandstone) was made with leather mixed with white in lighter and lighter shades with drybrushing.
There are a lot of buildings here in Pennsylvania with a similar palette of stone color. Right in my home town of Bethlehem,as a matter of fact.
Thanks for looking in bro,J
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 03:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Jerry ,

cool , looking forward to see more of this!

Greetings ,

Kurt



Thanks Kurt,
There is a lot more for sure,
J
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 04:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Jerry,

Looks great!
Just a few photos shown and already a discussion started!
I like the look of your house. Having seen your other projects, I am convinced that you will blend it into the rest of the dio.

By the way: what will be the theme? Yes "Ardennes", but what action and items?

If one googles " ardennen huizen" and searches for "pictures", various colors turn up. From rather 'newish' yellow to middle age buildings in all sorts of grey. Another way is to search for " fermes en ardennes" . Also, the so called Fachwerk is not uncommon. The use of Fachwerkstructures can be seen in the most southern part of the Netherlands, around Maastricht and goes further south, deep into the Ardennes.
One thing should be kept in mind: sand stone is rather soft and tends to lose its sharp edges during the time. Furthermore, due to its softness, it allows all sorts of small plants, farn and moss, to grow.
So, all together, what you started will certainly lead to something very inspiring and beautiful again.

Looking forward,

P.



Thanks for looking in and for the assurance of support and confidence in my abilities brother. It means a lot to me,seriously.
I am trying to figure out how to use this pic I am referencing for the build without violating copyright law so bear with me and many questions will be answered.
I can answer right now the events to take place here. It is another dio about my Regts' taking of Cheneux,Belgium during the BoB. This was part of the plan to contain and eliminate Gepanzertegruppe Peiper. This building was and is in the center of the village and was in the area where a fierce fight took place between my guys and the unarmoured flak wagen emplaced there. Film at eleven.
J
Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 04:39 AM UTC
Did you airbrush your colors onto the stone work?
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 05:31 AM UTC
@Biggles-nope!! All brushwork. The cool thing about plaster is the way you can get all kind of neat tones because it is so porous. Takes some testing though.
@Claude and Romain
These pics may clear some things up.
All pics are for discussion purposes only taken from "Duel in the Mist" and as these are two of my favorite history books of all time I am hoping I am not stepping on any toes by using them here. I focused the view to just what is relevent to my topic and so it should not be too bad I hope.
First,the subject brought up about the sandstone door lintles and the stone color. This pic clears up that. Look at the colors on the two buildings and the lintle over the smaller one.Now how did I do? These pics are from the exact location in my dio.


Taking a picture of a picture has lightened the stonework a bit though.
J
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 05:34 AM UTC
And now about the fachwerk. This is the front of the garage I am modeling. The street side. I am imagining the back of it,further down the hill. A pic from 1944 and a modern one for color ref.




So you can see I am not just whistling dixie here. I did my homework.
J
roudeleiw
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 06:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text


So you can see I am not just whistling dixie here. I did my homework.
J


I never doubted that!

I would not base the colour of the sandstone just on that tiny bit you may see on the right hand barn. It could well be wood over the door.

The stones on the left house is multi-coloured shale or slate, from quarries in the Ardennes, also widely used in Luxembourg.
If your goal was to replicate that, I would advice to make more smaller ones in your facade. Those pieces are in reality sometimes no more then 1 cm thick!
I just found this site with a couple of superb pictures. Those buildings are made of "shiste" , meaning shale or slate.
http://blog.escapardenne.eu/?page_id=151
Last picture on this site is also useful
http://www.schwarzaufweiss.de/belgien/wallonien-ardennen.htm
The whole church and the monastery of Clervaux are made like that also.

Overall I think that your building is to much on the red/brown side and you should lighten in up and diversify a lot more.

Claude

by the way, I will visit a slate quarry in three weeks. www.ardoise.lu

I was invited with two railroadermodelers for a special visit. It will probably end with having a new project to do in cooperation with those railroaders, I do building, they make the train to go with it.




jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 06:27 AM UTC
Forgot to add,yes,there will be a step. Remember this is only the beginning work. The building will get put into the side of a slight hill. If you look at the original pic the building faces the road and the ground slopes down to the right. The back of the building is just imagined by me as Google earth didn't let me look behind it,you must stay on the road!!
Guys from the 2/504th PIR were fighting a 20mm un-armored flak wagen from various locations in the village center. And,no......no snow!
I realized after posting the above that some confusion may be coming from the fact that even in somewhat small areas of geography,the color of stones may differ a lot! The river valley where I live has some fieldstones houses much like the ones in my dio in color. Just a bit down the road there are fieldstone places with much darker color with more red tones. As folks back then tended to build with material close to hand there would be a big variety of colors within the same region. That is why in Cheneux and LeGleiz we have these red/brown and yellow stone while in Clerveux things look much different as is so fantastically portrayed by Comte Claude in his epic dio. His area is much more grey/yellow in nature.
Just use google earth and you can see for yourself.

J
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 07:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


So you can see I am not just whistling dixie here. I did my homework.
J


I never doubted that!

I would not base the colour of the sandstone just on that tiny bit you may see on the right hand barn. It could well be wood over the door.

The stones on the left house is multi-coloured shale or slate, from quarries in the Ardennes, also widely used in Luxembourg.
If your goal was to replicate that, I would advice to make more smaller ones in your facade. Those pieces are in reality sometimes no more then 1 cm thick!
I just found this site with a couple of superb pictures. Those buildings are made of "shiste" , meaning shale or slate.
http://blog.escapardenne.eu/?page_id=151
Last picture on this site is also useful
http://www.schwarzaufweiss.de/belgien/wallonien-ardennen.htm
The whole church and the monastery of Clervaux are made like that also.

Overall I think that your building is to much on the red/brown side and you should lighten in up and diversify a lot more.

Claude

by the way, I will visit a slate quarry in three weeks. www.ardoise.lu

I was invited with two railroadermodelers for a special visit. It will probably end with having a new project to do in cooperation with those railroaders, I do building, they make the train to go with it.






I still think that piece over the door in the small building is stone. I looked at it a lot!! Not wood.
I posted that pic to show the color of the stones only. You are correct,the stones should be smaller in size for sure but I think I have the over-all colors OK. I run into this problem a lot in that the yellow tones come mostly from the mortar in between the stones as in the last pic you showed in the link from Hotten.
The building I am showing in my piece is the half stone and half fachwork one but the stone is the same color as the first pic I posted.
I do notice a problem as for the first time I notice the fachwerk is filled in with bricks!! I must re-do that. I don't want to get bogged down in this forever though.
I am curious to see your new project when it's begun.
J
1stjaeger
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 10:04 AM UTC

Jerry, your pics clearly show that the building is made out of schist (slate) and not sandstone.
We must bear in mind that schist can come in different colours and tones, some of them resembling sandstone, hence the mistake! Colours could be acceptable as they are now, but the stones in your wall are too big (a few exceptions possible).

The Fachwerk with bricks is found sometimes in our region, but the real Fachwerk is concentrated towards the german border (what Paul actually said ("Maastricht..further south") Maastricht is less than 30 Kms away from Aachen!!

Cheers

Romain

jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 11:34 AM UTC
[quote]
Jerry, your pics clearly show that the building is made out of schist (slate) and not sandstone.
We must bear in mind that schist can come in different colours and tones, some of them resembling sandstone, hence the mistake! Colours could be acceptable as they are now, but the stones in your wall are too big (a few exceptions possible).

The Fachwerk with bricks is found sometimes in our region, but the real Fachwerk is concentrated towards the german border (what Paul actually said ("Maastricht..further south") Maastricht is less than 30 Kms away from Aachen!!

Cheers

Romain

OK Romain,
I can only assume you are not reading my posts or you are not getting my meaning. I never said the building was made of sandstone. Only the 4 pieces that surround the door. Where are you getting I said this was made from sandstone? The building in my last set of pics is clearly a fachwerkhaus on the top portion and is the exact building I am trying to make. So I don't get your point about the fachwerk,because here it is in black and white and in color! The exact building! I am not building the one from the pic with the brick arch_forget that one!!! It was only icluded to show colors.
Seems like I'm spinning my wheels here. I don't know what your point is about the fachwerk.

J
1stjaeger
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 10:51 PM UTC
Don't worry, I'm getting your point Jerry!

You never said anything about sandstone, but your stonework is looking like it, that's what I meant. Slate slabs are flatter and generally smaller in size!

You are right, this lintel/cap piece is stone IMHO. (Too "brown" to be aged wood.)

Have your Fachwerk m8, no problem at all! The only thing I said is that it is rare in parts of the Ardennes, and if present, it's not made of loam covered wooden stakes, but of unbaked clay bricks. Why is that so, because the loam is not always suitable for Fachwerk. It's not that Fachwerk wasn't built in the Ardennes, it was until the end of the XIXth century, but it was never as widespread as in other european regions (where the loam and other materials were more appropriate).
I lived in the region...and I did not see any such building in my area. You found one, fine! Show it, no problem!
We shouldn't let a Fachwerk building get in our way, should we!

Cheers

Romain





jrutman
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Posted: Monday, January 06, 2014 - 02:48 AM UTC
I am making changes to the thing. I will have an update today or maybe tomorrow,as I am a bit under the weather today.

Romain,I get your points about fachwerk and understand and agree with you on them all. I was just not getting your point about the whole thing as I wasn't searching for a fachwerk building,I wanted to model the building that was in the middle of the action in Cheneux and it happened to be fachwerk!. Stone on bottom and brick in-filled fachwerk on top.
I began scribing and painting the bricks last night...oi!!
J
jrutman
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Posted: Monday, January 06, 2014 - 10:51 AM UTC
I made the stones smaller in the rock wall,also lightened the tone a bit over-all. Accented the lines in the timber a bit more and scribed brickwork in between the timbers.



Time to build a base and blend the building to it,add a step,all those little bits.
J
1stjaeger
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Posted: Monday, January 06, 2014 - 11:55 AM UTC


Hi m8,
that's a lot better for the size of the slabs!
Colour is still too "Tuscany" warm IMHO (if you see what I mean, or let me put it that way:) your yellow ocher tends towards brown/orange too much. It should rather go towards greenish/creme). In fact, the pics show almost no difference in colour between the slate slabs and the brickwork!
Look at your own picture for reference.

Brickwork inbetween the beams is just fine!!

The lintel is in one piece for sure, but the sides possibly are not! I think the side pieces in your picture are even brickwork, not sure though!?!!
Slabs this size are very expensive! And poor people would not invest that much in secondary buildings!

Cheers

Romain
Stickframe
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Posted: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 05:32 AM UTC
Hi Jerry - I'm sorry I can't keep up with you and the others above with the nuanced critique of getting your materials and masonry spot on - but am very comfortable in saying it's very impressive that you did the work in such short time (!) and it looks so good! Looking forward to seeing where this goes!
Cheers
Nick

jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 06:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Jerry - I'm sorry I can't keep up with you and the others above with the nuanced critique of getting your materials and masonry spot on - but am very comfortable in saying it's very impressive that you did the work in such short time (!) and it looks so good! Looking forward to seeing where this goes!
Cheers
Nick




I wouldn't be so modest dude as you have got the"eye" for sure! Your dio is kind of mind blowing for me in its' level of realism.
The reason I go back and forth with these guys is because they are amoung the best and I value their input. Doesn't mean they are correct!! Heeheehee.
I wish I could get an accurate color reproduction of the stones in my pictures from the book though. It must be my lighting that is toning them with so much yellow. Then maybe the critiques would lighten up. (no chance)
Just got back from buying my high speed-low drag $1.50 wood base so I can get on with the vignette.
J
kurnuy
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Posted: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 08:24 AM UTC
Nice job my friend , i love the fade in the color tones

Greets Kurt
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