Lucas,
Your progress on your M113 is coming along nicely and I respect the fact that you are open to receiving info about the track from Vets like Bill. I think through this thread topic many people are being exposed to how there were further variations to the known variations of the M113 series in Vietnam and that standardization even in the same unit had its own slight variations. Bill's company was a prime example of this. There were variations of what was used for gun shields for the .50s. Some had the full ACAV tub and shield, Lee Anne had just the tub, some had just the shield, and some had none at all. Same for the M60s - some had one shield, some 2, and some had none. Some photo reference books that use official Army and DOD photos from the archives do not usually show the unique variations. Thankfully some Vets are starting to post their personal photos like Bill has done and has shared his link with all of us. Some unit association websites have compiled collections of photos from unit members that have been very useful as references for detailing the vehicles as well as being useful when creating the groundwork for dioramas. This thread and Sven's have been some of the most useful threads I have read on Armorama.

Your model of the M151 with the RR is quite nice.

Cheers,
James

James, thanks for Your opinion.

I think that this is great about the internet and the people who share the same passion.

Hope Bill and others will assist my build to the end

You are welcome.

It is nice to come into contact with those who share your passion. My passion is modeling Vietnam subjects so whenever I see someone posting something about such things I enjoy seeing their projects.

Bill helped me with some of the details of my last diorama, "Leave that snake alone and let's go" and continues to guide me through the details of the tracks from his unit that I am depicting. You can count on him to provide insight and input until you complete your project.

Keep up the great work you are doing.
Cheers,
James

Lucasz,

I just bumped up my thread about "Leave that snake alone and let's go!" in the Dioramas section to show you how my M113 turned out. Although it is a wedgies, it does have an interior. Unfortunately, I had not met Bill yet when I had started it and did not know that his unit's interiors were white so the interior was that light green color. However it was not too late for some of the exterior details and the details about the bunker. Currently I am working on the Company Commander's track, the Kingdom on which Bill was the gunner. With Bill's help it will be better model than the last one.

Cheers
James

Thanks to my friend and brother-in-arms James and all you other guys for the kind remarks. The "Lee Anne" and "Sunshine" dioramas are the only ones I have ever done, and those way back in the '80s. I'm not in the same league with most of you guys, but I really appreciate your artistry and participating in the forum is starting to give me the bug, again.

I'm thinking about the M151 belonging to the 9th Division Commander, Major General George G. O'Connor. It was the gaudiest, most over-the-top, pimped REMF vehicle I have ever seen. George Patton (the WWII General, not the Vietnam Colonel) would have loved it! I think it would make a unique subject. Maybe next winter I'll decide to take the plunge. If not, it would probably make a great subject for one of James' dioramas.

In the meantime, I will be happy to provide any help I can to anyone.

This cat on the front of M113 is a decal or hand made?
Was it on Lee Anne?

I hand painted the Panther. When you look at some of Bill's photos there is one where Lee Anne has a trim vane that shows a different version of Panther on it that kind of looks like a bull or cow to me. Not everyone painting these things on vehicles were good artists:)

Here's the "cow" James, a Texan, is referring to.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_rambow/19072980233/in/datetaken/

Being from Chicago, it looked more like a deformed Doberman to me!

I did not have to try to reproduce it in my diorama since the trim vane was down and the hood open so the driver could check the oil dipsticks.

Bill,

If this ment to be a cow... than You have a really wierd cows there in US

Do You have any pciture, even hand made with the shape of that "cow"?

Lee Anne does'nt have the front shield (main gun) and a left shield with M60. How about the right side? There was 106 RR and no shield with M60?

Tomorow I'll post another pics of my progres.
Never thought before, that I have a Chance to meet and ask anyone who was in Vietnam. Also sad to read about the crew of Your younger brother.

I have on my shelf wauting UH-1 (1:35), Centurion (1:35) and CH-47 Chinook (1:48) which pogres will be published here on armorama as well, so If My M113 build will be seen by You all as a valuable topic, I'll try to make my own effort to make other models reffered to the NAM.

By the way, the heating device that we discuss in the previous page, was dismounted by the crew or by the technical service before the action in the Vietnam?

An d how It was with the orders from above about the field modifications of the tracks? It was some kind of anarchy or a rules that was just common and noone really care about the standards?

Lots of questions like always

Only in Texas. :-)




Sorry, that's the best one I have seen of my track's "artwork". But the same "artist" painted other tracks in the company, so I'll look around and let you know if I find any. But if you intend to model Lee Anne, you can leave the trim vane off entirely. It was broken not long after I began driving - not my fault, blame the officer who directed us to use our tracks as bulldozers!

Here's a shot of my 1st Platoon tracks in the motor-pool...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_rambow/19667684576/in/datetaken/lightbox/

Only the Platoon Leader's track, C11, still has a trim vane, and you can faintly see the panther/cow. He may have been the leader, but of course his track was never in front, busting jungle!




Correct. The right hand M60 mount and shield were replaced by the M40A1. Sometimes the second M-60 was set up on tis bipod on the open cargo hatch as sort of a tail-gun when we were moving. When in laager (do you know that term?) the left side M-60 was often dismounted and out on patrol with the grunts. The second one would be set-up in the bunker we always dug between tracks.





The heater was already gone before I joined the company, but I imagine it was done by the maintenance section. Grunts, and even drivers would not have attempted such a mod on their own.




Anarchy would have been a very bad thing in a combat infantry unit! The squad leader would certainly have to approve of any minor field mods made to his track. He was the TC, Track Commander. Any modifications that applied to all of the company's vehicles, such as removing all the troop seats and installing the wooden ammo boxes in their place, would be approved or ordered by the Company Commander. Something major, such as taking the 106 off the Jeep and mounting it on the track would have had Battalion approval. Some commanders were more strict than others, of course. Usually, little changes that did not affect the track's fighting efficiency, such as installing a Jeep seat, or in one instance I know of, a salvaged Huey pilot's armored seat for the TC on top of the track were allowed. It all depended on the particular officer's personality and command style. But anarchy? Never happen, G.I.!

While we are talking about the Track Commander - even though the .50 cal. HMG hatch is called the "TC's seat" in the manuals, it was rarely occupied by the Track Commander in Vietnam, at least in our battalion.

The TC, normally the Squad Leader, usually sat on the open hatch cover behind the driver. The main reason for this is that the .50 was always - I say again, ALWAYS manned. When the squad dismounted with their squad leader to patrol, go to chow, return fire in an ambush - any reason at all, the .50 gunner stayed behind the gun. A TC had to command and communicate - difficult to do when you are firing a "Ma Deuce". In our case, C14 carried the Platoon Sergeant, so he was the TC and the Squad leader had to find somewhere else to sit. The only time the .50 hatch was unmanned was back at Bearcat, our basecamp. Everybody except the Platoon Sergeant, and sometimes the Squad Leader, took turns behind the gun. When the squad was out on patrol, the only grunts left behind might be the driver and one other man. They would take two hours-on, two-off shifts in the "gun tub", monitoring the radio at the same time. The driver also had to start and run the engine for five or ten minutes every hour or two to keep the batteries from running down.

Me in the "tub"...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_rambow/19072978373/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/



Here is a picture of me driving and the TC sitting on my hatch cover wearing the CVC helmet for radio comms.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_rambow/19698429071/in/datetaken/lightbox/





Roger that! :-) Fire for Effect!

[quote]

An d how It was with the orders from above about the field modifications of the tracks? It was some kind of anarchy or a rules that was just common and noone really care about the standards? [quote]

Lucasz,
I did not mean to make it seem that there were no standards adhered to when I was describing the variances between vehicles in regards to the gun shields. 2/47 Infantry (Mechanized) was a very well disciplined and professional battalion during the time period that Bill and my father were in the 9th Infantry Division which was 1967-1968. I cannot say for the rest of the time they were in Vietnam but it seems they continued to be so. They were chosen to spearhead the incursion into Cambodia for a reason. Usually when there are variances in things like the gun shields it has nothing to do with anarchy and Soldiers doing whatever they want, it usually has do with what is available in the supply system and what units have priority for various supply items. Cavalry units had priority for the ordering and fielding of the ACAV shield sets. Whatever was left in the system trickled its way to the Mechanized Infantry units. Although there may have been slight differences in the construction of the wooden boxes in Bill's unit, there were still dimensional standards that had to be met. Since the crews had to make the boxes themselves, those variances were due to each crew's carpentry skills.

I hope this explanation may be more understandable than my post at the top of page 4 was.

Cheers,
James

@Bill - thank you for sharing such valuable 1st hand info on the M113's and your experience in Vietnam - it really allows us who weren't there to, in some small way, "get the feel" of how things were and what you experienced.

@Lukasz - thank you for allowing your build thread to be used [and not abused] for this sharing of information. Looking forward to see more of your M113 soon.

@Frenchy - thank you for the ARVN photos - much appreciated.

Regards,
Kobus

I just thought of something that might be of interest to you guys as a reference resource. Forgive an old grunt for not remembering it earlier.

If you go to my Mech-Grunt website you will find that, among other things, I have tried to design products for all the Mechanized Infantry, Armored Cavalry, and Armor units that served in Vietnam.

This all started when I was unable to find any products - hats, shirts, bumper stickers, etc. that featured the M113. There were a million Hueys out there, which was understandable as it became the universally recognized symbol of the Vietnam War. But that's not what I wanted, so I designed my own items for the combat veterans who, like me, rode the tracks into battle.

That eventually expanded to include other types of units, and then other conflicts, post-Vietnam. I even have a section for the ANZAC Vietnam Vets.

For modelers researching the U.S. Army combat units that were equipped with the M113, the products pages for Mech Infantry, Armored Cavalry and Armor, as well as the separate pages for my own 2/47 Infantry (Mech) and the 11th ACR, might prove helpful to you.

If you wonder why I have neglected the Marines, it is not inter-service rivalry. It's because the USMC requires a license for anything produced with any graphics associated with them. They keep it al in-house, so to speak.

Then, check out my Links page which contains links to many of these units' veterans' organizations and individual vet's pages. You will find a wealth of information and photos on many of these websites. I apologize for any broken links.

http://www.mechgrunt.com/

Happy hunting, troops.

Ok, this tread need new photos.

I've removed the boxes to remake tchem, as well as the heating device.

On the celling there is some kind of vent fence or air filter I belive?






There are some PE frets I plan to use

Crew


And the painting set I will use


Feel free as always to comment.

Hello again,

This time I'm showing the repainted interior.

Hope it's ok, and I can proceed to the next steps of work with interior.

Firstly for me it looks too bright, but after wash and other treatments it should be a bit more ... hmmm realistic




I'm waiting for Your opinions.

Hey guys,

Hope this thred is not dead?

Today new photos.

Hi Lukasz,
The thread is definitely not dead. As has been said previously, this is a very popular vehicle. I don't think you need to worry about how bright the paint is right now. Once you give it some washes and finish giving it the lived-in look as seen on some of the posted pictures of real vehicles in use it won't be an issue. More pictures please!
John

Hi Lukasz

Definitely not dead - waiting in anticipation for more pictures. I would like to see how it looks with the washes as I intend using the same Tamiya colour for my interiors.

Regards,
Kobus

Great to read that.

As i assured, I've made some new photos.

First I've shadowed a bit the colour in the corners etc to make it more realistic.

Then I'v sprayed the coat of gloss varnish to prepare it for wash and interior decals. The wash and decals will appear tommorow so the new pictures will be added by me.




Thanks for supporting this tread.

What a wonderful thread. Great work on the model and I'm really enjoying the comments from vets.

Keep it going!

Here are the promised photos of the 1/35th scale, field-expedient, ammo box benches I have built for James O'Leary's Panther Battalion diorama series. I have made two platoon's worth, eight pairs of them, from model railroad lumber and leftover wooden ship model planks.

I don't know that any other units, aside from ours, the 2/47th Inf (Mech) 9th ID, used these boxes. We hammered them together in our motor pool, shortly after my arrival in April of 1967. Judging by the photos I have seen, every unit seems to have followed their own scheme. But these boxes did an admirable job of organizing the clutter inside our tracks. The boxes were loaded to a standardized plan so that every squad member could lay his hands on just what he needed without digging or searching in moments of crisis.

https://gallery.kitmaker.net/showgallery.php/cat/30001

Bill, With your presence I'm feeling better now

Wonderful job with the crates, I'm not sure If I can do anything similar. I thought the crates were like the ladies bag? There's always a lot of stuff and noone can find what he's loking for

Anyway I was wondering about the radio and fire extinguisher color. Radio should in Olive drab and the fire ext. in red?

I will probably use the benches from Sven, because it looks more profesional due to lack of skill to reproduce the wooden crates (the ones I made werent a real thing...)
The benches got the stripes or belts of some kind?

And again, Bill I realy appreciate your presence in this tread!

I'm writing from my phone, so please excuse errors.

I understand your hesitancy to construct the big boxes. I can only attest that they were used in my own company. Field mods and methods varied widely from one unit to another, and even from track to track within a unit, depending on the whims of its commander.

If you look back at the photo of me cleaning the M2 you can see our extinguisher behind me is OD. I can't say about others, but I suspect it was standard. Yes, all the radio equipment was OD.

The folding seats apparently were equipped with seat belts if the after market kit makers are correct, but I don't remember them. They certainly would not have been neatly laid out as they have been molded on the model. My guess is they would have been removed as a tripping, snagging hazard since they were never used for their intended purpose.

@Lukasz - Thank you for the build log. I'm following your progress closely.

@Bill - Thank you for the additional info on the boxes and interior of the 'tracks' - much appreciated.

Regards,
Kobus

Arrrghhhh Why I cant just let it go??

I will try to make the crates once more time. I owe You something Bill for your suport, so Im going to print your crates and make something similar.

I just need to find some more thin wood pieces.

Just keep the fingers crossed for me.