Figures
Military figures of all shapes and sizes.
Military figures of all shapes and sizes.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
DML Germans Vs Allies
erichvon
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,694 posts
Armorama: 1,584 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 05:57 AM UTC
Jim, I think its fairly safe to say that (looking at comments posted) that some modellers are disenchanted with the goods on offer. While Allied modellers may be the minority purchasewise, is that not surprising due to the fact that the vast majority of kits are German. While I would never knock Dragon for value, technical quality or production of new items I, as others feel that their production is one sided. You express your opinion but to be honest it is the same as usual in that you are deliberately inflamattory due to others having an opinion that differs from yours. I may be outspoken but at the same time I am neither patronising or rude to any members of the site. I would therefore appreciate it if you could keep digs restricted to PM's rather than interfere with the thread. Your comments are neither constructive nor helpful. The thread was set up to canvas opinion. Not to become a sniping match.
erichvon
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,694 posts
Armorama: 1,584 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 06:14 AM UTC
As Alan has quite rightly put it...the Dieppe set? What was that about? Four naval ratings sneaking around a corner for sale at $1. Now thats about 60p in the UK. A bargain if you can actually find a use for them!Logical to release a specific Dieppe set..no Commandoes, no Canadian infantry, no early war US rangers. No wonder it didn't sell. Task specific but no enemy. Ramcke Brigade...no enemy produced. Afrika Korps...where are the 8th Army? I would be interested to hear what people want Allied figurewise and once I have that I will bombard Dragon with suggestions as I know Al does :-) .
Personally I would like to see a British tank crew, a couple more sets of British Infantry in firing positions to vary poses, a Vickers crew (both static and moving), a British artillery crew, 8th Army, a new set of British paras (Resicast do quite well out of them at £7.50 a piece otherwise they wouldn't produce them) Gurkhas and Aussies for Burma, a new set of US airborne a la Normandy. I could go on...I'll leave that to others to express what they want.
Personally I would like to see a British tank crew, a couple more sets of British Infantry in firing positions to vary poses, a Vickers crew (both static and moving), a British artillery crew, 8th Army, a new set of British paras (Resicast do quite well out of them at £7.50 a piece otherwise they wouldn't produce them) Gurkhas and Aussies for Burma, a new set of US airborne a la Normandy. I could go on...I'll leave that to others to express what they want.
RayW
Joined: October 15, 2002
KitMaker: 848 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 06:28 AM UTC
Hi Guys,
I browsed most of the posts and have no real opinion. I generally dont model german subjects but prefer allied. What I started to do was when a company such as DML release a nice set I look at it not as German but what I can convert it into. For example I look for German kits with puttees instead of boots, the whole bottom torso/legs with a little bit of putty can look like British/allied figures, for example in my Medical dio I used the excellent DML German Medical troops to look like a german medic carrying a british para
A lot of times these legs can be mated up with British/Allied upper torsos. A friend of mine took the bottom torso of a DML Sicily set , mated them up with British upper torsos and had Canadians in Sicily.
Many of the different arms with cuffs can be used for different poses, I have a plastic morgue in my collection and use them accordingly.
DML has to do what it needs to stay in business and I'm sure they will throw some allied stuff our way every now and then, if not the next thread on this site will be people gripping about DML going out of business.
When we look at armour AFV Club has released some nice allied kits like their stuart line, M10/Wolverine, The new Grant etc I even have in my collection an older DML Valentine.
Anyways this is an interesting thread and I would like to have more allied to chose from, remember guys dont take this too seriously this is a great hobby we have and personally I enjoy a well built kit no matter the subject but just appreciate it for what is is, somebody else enjoying the hobby and I have the pleasure of seeing the end result. Our hobby is at what I think right now is at its best and the quality is continually getting better and I applaud DML and other companies for for releasing such things as Gen2 where our choice before was just expensive resin.
Cheers and Happy Modelling
Ray
I browsed most of the posts and have no real opinion. I generally dont model german subjects but prefer allied. What I started to do was when a company such as DML release a nice set I look at it not as German but what I can convert it into. For example I look for German kits with puttees instead of boots, the whole bottom torso/legs with a little bit of putty can look like British/allied figures, for example in my Medical dio I used the excellent DML German Medical troops to look like a german medic carrying a british para
A lot of times these legs can be mated up with British/Allied upper torsos. A friend of mine took the bottom torso of a DML Sicily set , mated them up with British upper torsos and had Canadians in Sicily.
Many of the different arms with cuffs can be used for different poses, I have a plastic morgue in my collection and use them accordingly.
DML has to do what it needs to stay in business and I'm sure they will throw some allied stuff our way every now and then, if not the next thread on this site will be people gripping about DML going out of business.
When we look at armour AFV Club has released some nice allied kits like their stuart line, M10/Wolverine, The new Grant etc I even have in my collection an older DML Valentine.
Anyways this is an interesting thread and I would like to have more allied to chose from, remember guys dont take this too seriously this is a great hobby we have and personally I enjoy a well built kit no matter the subject but just appreciate it for what is is, somebody else enjoying the hobby and I have the pleasure of seeing the end result. Our hobby is at what I think right now is at its best and the quality is continually getting better and I applaud DML and other companies for for releasing such things as Gen2 where our choice before was just expensive resin.
Cheers and Happy Modelling
Ray
MLD
Joined: July 21, 2002
KitMaker: 3,569 posts
Armorama: 2,070 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 06:33 AM UTC
Give it a rest!
you don't like it, don't buy it.
I'm getting sick of the "no allied halftrack" whine every time DML releases a WWII German kit.
Get over it!
I started back into the hobby with DML modern Russian/Soviet and Nam realeases.. I whined in those pre-internet days when DML went German.
Then I grew up.
Then I built some.
Now I like late-war German stuff.
Did I whine when the second Gen 2 fig set was early war? No.
Did I whine when the second smart kit was a Panzer I? No
I grew up and got over it.
Take a chill, switch to decaf, gets your meds adjusted.
(meaning no offence to people actually getting something out of modern psychological pharmacuticals)
Take a walk, talk to a girl
Buy a pet, do volunteer work
Go to a sporting event
Get a life.
Get over it.
My US$0.02, your miliage may vary.
Mike
you don't like it, don't buy it.
I'm getting sick of the "no allied halftrack" whine every time DML releases a WWII German kit.
Get over it!
I started back into the hobby with DML modern Russian/Soviet and Nam realeases.. I whined in those pre-internet days when DML went German.
Then I grew up.
Then I built some.
Now I like late-war German stuff.
Did I whine when the second Gen 2 fig set was early war? No.
Did I whine when the second smart kit was a Panzer I? No
I grew up and got over it.
Take a chill, switch to decaf, gets your meds adjusted.
(meaning no offence to people actually getting something out of modern psychological pharmacuticals)
Take a walk, talk to a girl
Buy a pet, do volunteer work
Go to a sporting event
Get a life.
Get over it.
My US$0.02, your miliage may vary.
Mike
lestweforget
Joined: November 08, 2002
KitMaker: 2,832 posts
Armorama: 1,500 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 08:15 AM UTC
Oh god :-)
As soon as i read this topic titlle i cringed.
I don't want to get too involved, i'll just say this.
I do have confidence that we will eventually see some more Allied releases, but if anyone thinks bringing this topic up time and time again will help things it wont (not attacking you Karl mate, just stating), let's be honest, DML will NEVER have an equal amount of Allied releases to its German, maybe not even close to equal. Ive recently embraced the airfix multipose figures for Allies, and even Axis.
I suggest if anyone wants to satisfy their needs to allied figures they turn to them for the time being, If / When DML Release a bunch of Allies in their high quality standards im sure we can all jump over to those.
As Jim and Vinnie point out, as much as many of us wish they were in it purely to please everyone, they are a business.
Cheers
As soon as i read this topic titlle i cringed.
I don't want to get too involved, i'll just say this.
I do have confidence that we will eventually see some more Allied releases, but if anyone thinks bringing this topic up time and time again will help things it wont (not attacking you Karl mate, just stating), let's be honest, DML will NEVER have an equal amount of Allied releases to its German, maybe not even close to equal. Ive recently embraced the airfix multipose figures for Allies, and even Axis.
I suggest if anyone wants to satisfy their needs to allied figures they turn to them for the time being, If / When DML Release a bunch of Allies in their high quality standards im sure we can all jump over to those.
As Jim and Vinnie point out, as much as many of us wish they were in it purely to please everyone, they are a business.
Cheers
Hohenstaufen
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 12:32 PM UTC
Here's some thoughts.
a) LHS confirms the most sought after items are 1, WW2 German; 2, US Vietnam era. Everything else is a long way behind.
b) Did Airfix go bust (again) because their range was outdated, or because they didn't have enough German stuff?
c) There still isn't a readily available decent SS field gun crew in smocks.
d) Accurate Armour & Resicast are still in business because they are targeting a niche market not trying to take on the big boys.
e) New dies for an injection moulded plastic kit cost tens of thousands of £. Moulds for resin kits can be made in your garage.
f) Not every modeller lives in the UK & US. Some wouldn't make British or US equipment on principle.
g) I never recall seeing any WW2 Chinese figures or equipment. Ever. China has the world's largest population.
h) Compared to the battles on the Eastern Front in WW2, NWE, Italy & North Africa were side shows.
Discuss.
a) LHS confirms the most sought after items are 1, WW2 German; 2, US Vietnam era. Everything else is a long way behind.
b) Did Airfix go bust (again) because their range was outdated, or because they didn't have enough German stuff?
c) There still isn't a readily available decent SS field gun crew in smocks.
d) Accurate Armour & Resicast are still in business because they are targeting a niche market not trying to take on the big boys.
e) New dies for an injection moulded plastic kit cost tens of thousands of £. Moulds for resin kits can be made in your garage.
f) Not every modeller lives in the UK & US. Some wouldn't make British or US equipment on principle.
g) I never recall seeing any WW2 Chinese figures or equipment. Ever. China has the world's largest population.
h) Compared to the battles on the Eastern Front in WW2, NWE, Italy & North Africa were side shows.
Discuss.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 01:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Not every modeller lives in the UK & US. Some wouldn't make British or US equipment on principle.
Steve has just made a point (which may be obvious) but it is something which is frequently forgotten. Another point, by GreatBrit, is also fascinating, buy less, but build what's available in British from AA or Cromwell.
Also, let's be honest here, this thread was not started to bemoan the lack of allied figures/equipment, it was a complaint about the lack of BRITISH/COMMONWEALTH. If I wanted to be pedantic (perish the thought) I could burst into song (with Red Army Choir in the background), celebrating the fact that Soviet equipment and figures are available in good quality from three manufacturers (Trumpeter, MiniArt and DML) - with the exception of BTs and a decent T-26...
U.S. equipment? More or less a similar story, some excellent figure sets, the possibility to build OOB (or with good conversion sets) all of the major Sherman/Stuart variants albeit with a lack of softskins and some artillery.
So, in the final analysis, things are better than many would imagine, not perfect, but far better than the author of this thread would have us believe. Also, if you don't want to buy resin, there is a HELL of a lot available for upgrading basic plastic figures - Hornet, Resicast, Ultracast and AA to name but four. In vehicles, there are conversion sets to build most Churchill variants, updates/conversions for almost any Cromwell variant, as far as M4s are concerned, a similar picture.
Or, is the conclusion we should take from this thread, if it doesn't come OOB it doesn't exist?
docdios
#036
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 1,998 posts
Armorama: 1,236 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 01:41 PM UTC
Having read through the whole thread twice, just to make sure i have not missed somthing, the one post that really stands out is the one by tsang.
which i have reprinted below to save you going back and looking for it, take a read and ill follow up below:-
Now this is a post from a producer, some one at the frontline producing kits to make a living, so he would have a good idea of which of his products are selling. hes not basing this on any forum post but on hard figures from his own company.
Now in my mind it is the cottage industrys that fill the gaps left by the main companys, but ask your self why even the like of alpine, verlinden, warrior, etc dont make many allied figures if there is such a void to be filled.
Surly if the need by the buying public was so great the ones they do produce would fly of the shelves but they dont (see Tsangs Post above), now if the cottage industrys know there is a void yet when they produce items to fill the void they dont sell then why the heck are any of the major producers going to attempt to fill the same void.
its a shame because like many i would love to see more allied figures, in general posses but the harsh reallity is that is very unlikly to happen in the near future.
cheers
Keith Forsyth
which i have reprinted below to save you going back and looking for it, take a read and ill follow up below:-
Quoted Text
Hello Gents
I read threads with this particular subject with much interest as
I am in the figure market. I can't speak for the big companies,
but here's what I have to say:
I can tell you that business is difficult as it is to make and sell
already market-proven items like German tankers. It's not like
we are making tons of money selling German figures and not
paying attention to Allied stuff. We are making German figures
to stay in business.... barely, that is.
From Alpine figures, the worst selling figures are the Brit tanker
and the modern russian tanker. I will have to see these figures
start selling more before I decide to make new Brits and modern
Russian figures. It's as simple as that.
There are tons of online threads asking for Allied stuff, but all
these requests don't get translated into sales. So why would
anyone waste money, time and effort to lose out at the end?
This type of online threads won't convince any manufacturers.
DML, Tamiya, Academy, and other smaller companies do get
brave enough to release Allied stuff time to time. When they do,
show support instead of ripping them a part on online reviews.
Go out an buy them as many kits as Axis modelers would buy
their Tigers and Panthers. Only then Allied modelers can say,
"We are as big of a market, and we demand our kits NOW".
Do I hear, "Yeah, but.... No, but..., Yeah, but.... No, but...." ???
(I did watch "Little Britain")
TS
Now this is a post from a producer, some one at the frontline producing kits to make a living, so he would have a good idea of which of his products are selling. hes not basing this on any forum post but on hard figures from his own company.
Now in my mind it is the cottage industrys that fill the gaps left by the main companys, but ask your self why even the like of alpine, verlinden, warrior, etc dont make many allied figures if there is such a void to be filled.
Surly if the need by the buying public was so great the ones they do produce would fly of the shelves but they dont (see Tsangs Post above), now if the cottage industrys know there is a void yet when they produce items to fill the void they dont sell then why the heck are any of the major producers going to attempt to fill the same void.
its a shame because like many i would love to see more allied figures, in general posses but the harsh reallity is that is very unlikly to happen in the near future.
cheers
Keith Forsyth
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
Armorama: 2,947 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 02:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Bradley, so would I.But that wasn't the original question. :-)
Vinnie
Aww cmon Vin!
I just read between the lines...
Kinggeorges
Joined: August 31, 2005
KitMaker: 1,380 posts
Armorama: 845 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 03:18 PM UTC
Hi all,
Maybe to sum up a little, and to second someone I liked the post, allied fans, or even modellers who are a bit fed up with thousands of german vehicule/figures variants, are just jalous from Axis modellers who gets nice german sets, with nice poses, nice weapons..etc...
We are all excited when Dragon announce a new kit (mainly figures for me) and it's normal some disappointment comes out in the post from allied fans when it's not allied. It's like if for christmas, you ordered to Santa Claus a Fireman truck and you got a Barbie doll....... :-) :-) (I think all modellers are Great kid who renounced to grow up....). And as all kid are capricious, I don't want AA or Resicast, I want MY DML kit !!
But from time to time DML release a nice set, for example the first Allied Gen 2 set : US Marines. Nice ! We have cool weapon, gear, etc...but if you look closer, the poses is very close from an older kit they produced, Marines at Okinawa if I'm correct. Poses are quite the same, but for sure quality is higher.
To end with a touch of hope, don't forget Ron Volstad wrote us he is an allied builder ! And he works for us the best he can ! My friend don't lose hope.
I bet the 2007 cataloge will include a set of GEN 2 US DD paras, a 3 in 1 US Halftrack Kit and tons of germans Figs and tanks.. :-)
:-) 
Have a nice day
Julien
Maybe to sum up a little, and to second someone I liked the post, allied fans, or even modellers who are a bit fed up with thousands of german vehicule/figures variants, are just jalous from Axis modellers who gets nice german sets, with nice poses, nice weapons..etc...
We are all excited when Dragon announce a new kit (mainly figures for me) and it's normal some disappointment comes out in the post from allied fans when it's not allied. It's like if for christmas, you ordered to Santa Claus a Fireman truck and you got a Barbie doll....... :-) :-) (I think all modellers are Great kid who renounced to grow up....). And as all kid are capricious, I don't want AA or Resicast, I want MY DML kit !!
But from time to time DML release a nice set, for example the first Allied Gen 2 set : US Marines. Nice ! We have cool weapon, gear, etc...but if you look closer, the poses is very close from an older kit they produced, Marines at Okinawa if I'm correct. Poses are quite the same, but for sure quality is higher.
To end with a touch of hope, don't forget Ron Volstad wrote us he is an allied builder ! And he works for us the best he can ! My friend don't lose hope.
I bet the 2007 cataloge will include a set of GEN 2 US DD paras, a 3 in 1 US Halftrack Kit and tons of germans Figs and tanks.. :-)
:-) Have a nice day
Julien
jba
Joined: November 04, 2005
KitMaker: 1,845 posts
Armorama: 777 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 03:31 PM UTC
when you want some stuff that's not on the catalogue, you do like me, you scratchbuild it. It saves some money
squeakyclean
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 265 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 03:47 PM UTC
I'm coming in to this thread a little late I know, but I've reading through all the posts! And the only comments I can make are:
If you find this topic boring, pointless or sad then ignore it and move on, all we (Brit/Com modellers) are doing is voicing our opinion, when I look through the recent forum post page, if I see anything such as 'Panthertiger VIIX rivet help' then I don't go near it. Period! The last thing I'm going to do is post a reply stating 'oh no! who cares, German rivets tut, tut... blah, blah'. C'mon, let us get it off our chests once in while, we'll shut up eventually and you can get back to whatever it is that interests you.
I'm in complete agreement with RayW, you don't have to able to sculpt figures from scratch, once you learn the techniques you can create endless figures and positions using what you have in the spares box!
The positive of threads like this one are to show just how many Brit/Com enthusiasts there are here at Armorama, from all over the world! As DML and the other big injection guys don't feel it is worth their while to produce more (or any) Brit/Com stuff then lets 'pool' our resources and help each other out.
I realise that's what Armorama does as a whole, but I'm talking about specifics, namely the obvious amount of knowledge concerning Britain and the Commonwealth, I've been a part of Armorama for less than a year and in that short space of time I've had help and answers to all my questions, I've learnt that if I want to know anything about British Shermans then Alan is the man, Karl has even been kind enough to send me a bag full of his Para spares (good man) for my obsession with British Airborne!
Hell, if you can't get the pose you want with spares and Milliput, then I (or someone else) probably can. Send me the bits, I'll put em together, do a bit of sculpting and send em back! You can pay with any stuff you got (and we've all got loads) and don't want, etc.
C'mon blokes, lets do some back scratchin'! I really think its the only way around this constant 'nerve' which keeps getting hit!
Cheers all
Happy days
Matt
If you find this topic boring, pointless or sad then ignore it and move on, all we (Brit/Com modellers) are doing is voicing our opinion, when I look through the recent forum post page, if I see anything such as 'Panthertiger VIIX rivet help' then I don't go near it. Period! The last thing I'm going to do is post a reply stating 'oh no! who cares, German rivets tut, tut... blah, blah'. C'mon, let us get it off our chests once in while, we'll shut up eventually and you can get back to whatever it is that interests you.
I'm in complete agreement with RayW, you don't have to able to sculpt figures from scratch, once you learn the techniques you can create endless figures and positions using what you have in the spares box!
The positive of threads like this one are to show just how many Brit/Com enthusiasts there are here at Armorama, from all over the world! As DML and the other big injection guys don't feel it is worth their while to produce more (or any) Brit/Com stuff then lets 'pool' our resources and help each other out.
I realise that's what Armorama does as a whole, but I'm talking about specifics, namely the obvious amount of knowledge concerning Britain and the Commonwealth, I've been a part of Armorama for less than a year and in that short space of time I've had help and answers to all my questions, I've learnt that if I want to know anything about British Shermans then Alan is the man, Karl has even been kind enough to send me a bag full of his Para spares (good man) for my obsession with British Airborne!
Hell, if you can't get the pose you want with spares and Milliput, then I (or someone else) probably can. Send me the bits, I'll put em together, do a bit of sculpting and send em back! You can pay with any stuff you got (and we've all got loads) and don't want, etc.
C'mon blokes, lets do some back scratchin'! I really think its the only way around this constant 'nerve' which keeps getting hit!
Cheers all
Happy days
Matt
MLD
Joined: July 21, 2002
KitMaker: 3,569 posts
Armorama: 2,070 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 03:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
If you find this topic boring, pointless or sad then ignore it and move on, all we (Brit/Com modellers) are doing is voicing our opinion, when I look through the recent forum post page, if I see anything such as 'Panthertiger VIIX rivet help' then I don't go near it. Period! The last thing I'm going to do is post a reply stating 'oh no! who cares, German rivets tut, tut... blah, blah'. C'mon, let us get it off our chests once in while, we'll shut up eventually and you can get back to whatever it is that interests you.
Agreed and sensible....
as long as...
the "Where is my M3 halftrack? wah wah wah...." crowd stays out of DML WWII German release announcements!
I have an opinion (like certain other anatomical constructs, every one has one and very few want to see it ) who will have an eaiser time of not going off topic and complaining.
Mike
squeakyclean
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 265 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 04:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
as long as...
the "Where is my M3 halftrack? wah wah wah...." crowd stays out of DML WWII German release announcements!
Agreed. (I've been guilty of this in the past, but can only check myself and not others).
Matt
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 04:46 PM UTC
As one of the more 'Vocal' elements in this thread, let me try (forlorn hope ) to sum up what the REALITY is...
Two people (both involved with the reality, i.e. the ECONOMICS) RonV and Taesung, have both posted pointing out that, at the end of the day, Allied is a poor seller and (in effect) CAN be backed-up`if the sales of Axis are good. Every company has one or two loss makers in its catalogue, DML is no exception.
Despite this, certain people have chosen to ignore these (informed) opinions and keep assuming that somehow the 'Majors' will relent and produce set after set of obscure figures and vehicles.
It's NOT going to happen. I honestly don't in this, and many other threads of this type, see anything new apart from some constructive comments from people like Anders and one of the previous posters advocating that you learn to convert or sculpt...
Personally, i'm getting totally annoyed by the constant wailing and sobbing every time I post a News Item about a New (German) release and have to see a litany of complaints about H/Ts or a DIY review as to why these are boring figures.
At the end of the day, do you HONESTLY think anyone is going to take your complaining seriously? Be constructive, back it up with a solid knowledge base and the manufacturers MAY just start listening, if not, forget it....
It's not personal - it's business...Jim
) to sum up what the REALITY is...Two people (both involved with the reality, i.e. the ECONOMICS) RonV and Taesung, have both posted pointing out that, at the end of the day, Allied is a poor seller and (in effect) CAN be backed-up`if the sales of Axis are good. Every company has one or two loss makers in its catalogue, DML is no exception.
Despite this, certain people have chosen to ignore these (informed) opinions and keep assuming that somehow the 'Majors' will relent and produce set after set of obscure figures and vehicles.
It's NOT going to happen. I honestly don't in this, and many other threads of this type, see anything new apart from some constructive comments from people like Anders and one of the previous posters advocating that you learn to convert or sculpt...
Personally, i'm getting totally annoyed by the constant wailing and sobbing every time I post a News Item about a New (German) release and have to see a litany of complaints about H/Ts or a DIY review as to why these are boring figures.
At the end of the day, do you HONESTLY think anyone is going to take your complaining seriously? Be constructive, back it up with a solid knowledge base and the manufacturers MAY just start listening, if not, forget it....
It's not personal - it's business...Jim
squeakyclean
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 265 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 05:36 PM UTC
Wow! Jim. Easy brother! Have you really been that personally offended by these posts?
Sorry mate
Matt
Sorry mate
Matt
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 05:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Have you really been that personally offended by these posts?
In a word - yes. News doen't write itself, and when you spend time collating, researching editing, producing and then writing it, only to see a string of irrellevant comments, it's a MOST frustrating exercise...Jim
squeakyclean
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 265 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 06:09 PM UTC
I can appreciate what you're saying Jim (I work as a designer), I have nothing but admiration for what ALL you guys at the 'A' do, I certainly couldn't do it (and build models at the same time) which is why I haven't applied for the recently advertised postion!
However, (there's always one) we are only talking and venting our frustrations on an otherwise superb hobby market, I don't believe any of us mean anything personal about our comments in fact, I think you'll find that generally we all have mucho respect for you guys.
Don't you think its interesting that after all the shouting and 'sniping' the theme of sculpting and scratch building is developing? If the gear just isn't out there we'll just have to adapt won't we? And if we all help each other out then this thread has amounted to something worthwhile, at least.
I think we should all thank Karl for taking time out to raise this point again (however sore some may find it), and its prompted Shay (Kiwibelg) to start a new post concerning suppliers of all things Allied, excellent.
Matt out.
However, (there's always one) we are only talking and venting our frustrations on an otherwise superb hobby market, I don't believe any of us mean anything personal about our comments in fact, I think you'll find that generally we all have mucho respect for you guys.
Don't you think its interesting that after all the shouting and 'sniping' the theme of sculpting and scratch building is developing? If the gear just isn't out there we'll just have to adapt won't we? And if we all help each other out then this thread has amounted to something worthwhile, at least.
I think we should all thank Karl for taking time out to raise this point again (however sore some may find it), and its prompted Shay (Kiwibelg) to start a new post concerning suppliers of all things Allied, excellent.
Matt out.
jlmurc
Joined: August 29, 2005
KitMaker: 1,267 posts
Armorama: 969 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 06:26 PM UTC
I must admit that I find the constant sniping at members of staff who give up their time and in effect are posting information to assist Jim the webmaster, very sad. At the end of the day, they spend their time adding information to a website that we all enjoy and is imformative.
Whilst it may not be the intention and I am sure it is not; but often the debate does, seem to end up affording some type of blame against the staff members, whom I think do well to respond in a measured fashion like they do.
In historical terms a forum is about debate, but when it becomes personal detracts from what we all want to achieve as a brother/sisterhood of people who come together through this medium to share our work and gain insight into that of others.
There will always be times when we write and an individual takes it the wrong way, as in, I was not being sarcastic to Karl, but trying to point out the pure economics that drive a manufacturer, whether it be models or shoes and they will follow a formula that works, so as to increase their profits. So as I said if you want to prove to a manufacturer, that there is a need for them to produce something that is different from what they believe is their bread and butter, it is pointless bombarding them with emails, saying I/we want, but far better than to approach them professionally with something to sell. This means a plan backed up by evidence. This will include hard data as to what it will do to enhance their profit margins and as I said needs a level of research and development which may include drawings, but certainly facts and figures so that they can see what you have to sell. Sell being the operative word.
For instance, Cyberhobby have commissioned limited runs of either other types of a vehicle or aftermarket sets.
The Dora model planned by another manufacturer is being released in a limited edition run, where you have to pay a deposit and even with that they will not run the production line until they have sold the minimum number of the kit to recover all of the costs.
In conclusion can we be thankful that the individuals who act as staff are human and are doing the job to keep us informed.............before we get them into the gunsights and it becomes personal, even if it is not mean't that way as it is my view that it detracts from an excellent site.
John
Whilst it may not be the intention and I am sure it is not; but often the debate does, seem to end up affording some type of blame against the staff members, whom I think do well to respond in a measured fashion like they do.
In historical terms a forum is about debate, but when it becomes personal detracts from what we all want to achieve as a brother/sisterhood of people who come together through this medium to share our work and gain insight into that of others.
There will always be times when we write and an individual takes it the wrong way, as in, I was not being sarcastic to Karl, but trying to point out the pure economics that drive a manufacturer, whether it be models or shoes and they will follow a formula that works, so as to increase their profits. So as I said if you want to prove to a manufacturer, that there is a need for them to produce something that is different from what they believe is their bread and butter, it is pointless bombarding them with emails, saying I/we want, but far better than to approach them professionally with something to sell. This means a plan backed up by evidence. This will include hard data as to what it will do to enhance their profit margins and as I said needs a level of research and development which may include drawings, but certainly facts and figures so that they can see what you have to sell. Sell being the operative word.
For instance, Cyberhobby have commissioned limited runs of either other types of a vehicle or aftermarket sets.
The Dora model planned by another manufacturer is being released in a limited edition run, where you have to pay a deposit and even with that they will not run the production line until they have sold the minimum number of the kit to recover all of the costs.
In conclusion can we be thankful that the individuals who act as staff are human and are doing the job to keep us informed.............before we get them into the gunsights and it becomes personal, even if it is not mean't that way as it is my view that it detracts from an excellent site.
John
Pilgrim
Joined: November 20, 2004
KitMaker: 516 posts
Armorama: 417 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 06:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHave you really been that personally offended by these posts?
In a word - yes. News doen't write itself, and when you spend time collating, researching editing, producing and then writing it, only to see a string of irrellevant comments, it's a MOST frustrating exercise...Jim
I'm genuiinely sorry you feel like that JIm, but I don't think you should. Nobody's having ago at your presentation of the news - only it's content which isn't your responsibility, obviously
I think all the posters who've expressed a desire for more allied / commonwealth kits have done so politely and constructively (I went out of my way to express gratitude to staffers in my post) - more so than those who dismiss their complaints as "wailing", and I think more constructively than people telling them to sculpt my own figures - guys I don't have one tenth of the talent needed to sculpt a figure! (I can't draw, but I can colour in; I can't sculpt a figure but a can build one and paint it.) I can just about scuplt a sandbag or tyre tracks in mud :-)
I don't generally bother commenting on news stories since I'm not driven to build the "latest" model all the time, but I get involved in this debate because it's something I feel moderately strongly about and I find it interesting. I don't get involved because I want to have a pop at staffers, so please don't infer that, it's not my implication.
Sean
AndyD
Joined: December 01, 2004
KitMaker: 672 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 07:09 PM UTC
After reading this thread I have had a horrible realisation:
I'm never going to get my Aussie 4RAR figure pack (complete with prawns, BBQ and aftermarket beer cans) and the sister pack of shocked British and US officers fom Dragon.
Damn you Dragon!!!!!
:-)
I'm never going to get my Aussie 4RAR figure pack (complete with prawns, BBQ and aftermarket beer cans) and the sister pack of shocked British and US officers fom Dragon.
Damn you Dragon!!!!!
:-) Pilgrim
Joined: November 20, 2004
KitMaker: 516 posts
Armorama: 417 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 07:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
After reading this thread I have had a horrible realisation:
I'm never going to get my Aussie 4RAR figure pack (complete with prawns, BBQ and aftermarket beer cans) and the sister pack of shocked British and US officers fom Dragon.
Damn you Dragon!!!!!
Now, that's a dio I'd love to see
:-) :-) :-)
Sean
taesung
Vendor
Joined: February 14, 2004
KitMaker: 493 posts
Armorama: 340 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 07:49 PM UTC
Hello Gents
First of all, my name is Taesung, not Tsang
After having read the posts here and others in the past,
it seems to me that the Allied fans are saying,
" just make new allied kits and you will be surprised
how well they would sell, we promise. Heck, I'll buy 2"
and the manufacturers are saying,
"no, you need to prove it first by buying the existing kits
because you guys don't have a good track record".
I think it's a losing battle for the allied modelers. Modelers
build models for fun. Not too many modelers build models
to put food on the table. Small or large, manufacturers
make kits to make a living.
Having said this, I still think that there are marketable
allied subjects to be covered, such as early/mid Churchill series.
This will create room for Alpine to squeeze in some Brit/CW tankers.
But please remember to encourage and support when
this type of miracle happens, and not rip it a part by saying,
"we waited so long and this inaccurate kit is what we get?"
In my humble opinion, the aftermarket companies like Alpine
is not responsible to fill in gaps left by the large companies.
That would be suicidal. To follow and ride the momentum of the
main stream releases and make items to go along with them
would be our aftermarket's job, I believe.
Taesung
First of all, my name is Taesung, not Tsang
After having read the posts here and others in the past,
it seems to me that the Allied fans are saying,
" just make new allied kits and you will be surprised
how well they would sell, we promise. Heck, I'll buy 2"
and the manufacturers are saying,
"no, you need to prove it first by buying the existing kits
because you guys don't have a good track record".
I think it's a losing battle for the allied modelers. Modelers
build models for fun. Not too many modelers build models
to put food on the table. Small or large, manufacturers
make kits to make a living.
Having said this, I still think that there are marketable
allied subjects to be covered, such as early/mid Churchill series.
This will create room for Alpine to squeeze in some Brit/CW tankers.
But please remember to encourage and support when
this type of miracle happens, and not rip it a part by saying,
"we waited so long and this inaccurate kit is what we get?"
In my humble opinion, the aftermarket companies like Alpine
is not responsible to fill in gaps left by the large companies.
That would be suicidal. To follow and ride the momentum of the
main stream releases and make items to go along with them
would be our aftermarket's job, I believe.
Taesung
staff_Jim
Publisher
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
Armorama: 6,599 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 08:15 PM UTC
Taesung should be commended though for keeping a much more balanced approach to his figure offerings. I did a quick count yesterday and came up with roughly 50% German & 50% US/Russian/British.
Of course why do I think this would not make people looking for Italian, Polish, Free French, Finnish, or Japanese figures happy? :-)
People will always find something to complain about. It's human nature. Some of us should just accept that and move on.
Cheers,
Jim
Of course why do I think this would not make people looking for Italian, Polish, Free French, Finnish, or Japanese figures happy? :-)
People will always find something to complain about. It's human nature. Some of us should just accept that and move on.
Cheers,
Jim
Kinggeorges
Joined: August 31, 2005
KitMaker: 1,380 posts
Armorama: 845 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 08:45 PM UTC
Nuance !
Allied fans are not complaining, they are only dreaming..... :-)
After this long thread, I think I will try sculpting, even if I certainly will realise allien allies...
Just a question : does anybody knows old kits done in the 70's-80's by Heller reproducing French troops in North Africa, Senegalese and Tabor troops + camels in 1/35 ? I've search on French and Belgium Ebay and on internet HobbyShop, but nothing !! Can anybody help me to find them ?
Thanks
Julien
Allied fans are not complaining, they are only dreaming..... :-)
After this long thread, I think I will try sculpting, even if I certainly will realise allien allies...
Just a question : does anybody knows old kits done in the 70's-80's by Heller reproducing French troops in North Africa, Senegalese and Tabor troops + camels in 1/35 ? I've search on French and Belgium Ebay and on internet HobbyShop, but nothing !! Can anybody help me to find them ?
Thanks
Julien
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.