Hi Jim
Thanks! I'm just following the recent AFV kit releases
and make figures accordingly. There are many German
and Russian kits being released recently and seen built
on online sites. My figures just reflecting such trend.

For all you Brit/CW fans out there, all I need is a "new"
tank kit from a major manufacturer to make a pair of tankers.
I'm not talking about another sherman/firefly. I mean a
new kit... a Churchill III, IV and V would be nice! A new Matilda
would be nice as well.

FYI, Warriors did well with their Brit tankers in pixie suit when
they released them to go with (then new) Tamiya's Cromwell series.
This is what I mean by "aftermarket response".

Taesung

Hey Taesung, com'on, you have the B1bis !!!

I know..... I'd like to.
But there have been already quite a few French tankers released recently.
I'm afraid I missed the train

TS

Blast and Warrior I guess.
But none of them have your talent

Funny thing is, in ship modeling DML favors modern US ships. They completely dominate where (other then the New Jersey and Enterprise-both 20+ year old kits) Tamiya has not a one. It is by no means the dominant subject matter either.

I saw how many pages responses to this had, decided not to read them, and so will shoot from the hip. I hope I'm not simply parroting what others have said.

As a diorama builder, and almost exclusively Allied dios at that, long ago I had to decide how I was going to overcome the relative lack of available figures. Instead of wringing my hands and giving up, I made the decision that, if there was nothing out there that suited the poses I needed in plastic, I'd pony up and get resin. If nothing suitable in resin, I'd teach myself to sculpt. Usually some re-posing works, but I've also done some semi-serious sculpting as well. Surprisingly, one can get reasonably good it with PRACTICE. Laziness won't get it done, however.

It was my decision to choose this subject. I accept the fact that I'm in the minority, and when necessary, adapt and overcome.

I've never asked Dragon or anybody else to level the field, I'm too busy honing my sculpting skills and you know what? There's a certain level of satisfaction in getting that pose you really needed to make a pice sing.

If you can't, or won't sculpt, and don't want to spend the money for resin, well, I guess you're stuck with what the manufacturers give you. Personally, being at the mercy of anybody like that makes me uncomfortable.

Sorry if this has already been beaten to death.

Barry

Greetings all

Interesting post that really seems to have deveoped several different purposes.

1. Complaining:

Jim's complaint seems to be that he finds the negative comments that sometimes occur in the News Posts on German Figure Sets/Kits annoying. Unless the News is posted with no place to comment I fear that this will continue to be the case. For some the News will be good ,for others bad and folks will naturally comment accordingly.

I like many often just read the News and move on. I did comment on the last set of German figures and here's what I said:


Greetigns all,

These look pretty neat. glad to see another medic on the scene. Split into two lots really, winter and summer.

I imagine the medic and tank man could fit in just about anywhere.

Cheers for the upadate.

Al

I also read Karl's comment and believe that that is also fair comment. That is why we have the forums for modellers to express their views about this or that.

2. They Don't Sell

I will use mainly Commonwealth Forces for most of the examples I give, but I'm sure I could have chosen others

Taesung also add some information to the post, that while very welcome, and great figures BTW, seems to have been seized on as justification to support the 'They Don't Sell' argument. I would only point out that these figures are resin and therefore more expensive and can not in this case be compared to the lack of Plastic Injection Figures the Post is focused on.

As only 6 sets of British Plastic Injection Figures are available on the market, how does anyone know what set might or might not sell well? How interesting/flexible are these sets?(see below also)

3. Constructive suggestions

Taesung also pointed out that he too felt that there were gaps in the market.

What sells is not just dependant on the nationality of the troops but how useful they are to the wider modelling community, combined with the quality of the kits and their flexabilty.

Therefore:

would French/British soldiers surrendering sell?
would French/British wounded/dead soldiers sell?
would US wounded/surrendering/dead soldiers sell?

would Commonwealth infantry in shirt sleeve order have a greater appeal than troops in full battle dress? They could be used in N Africa, Italy, SEA and NWE etc, etc.

would Commonwealth Infantry in Greatcoats have a wider use, N Africa and NWE?

would Tankers climbing on/off their vehicles sell better than ones standing around drinking tea?

Should the poses be more relaxed/active?

These are questions for the manufacturers, but it remains my belief that there is a lot of scope here. If the design of the figures is good and their flexability, poses well thought out that is what will make the difference.

I'm not talking lots of kits but one or two well though sets per year would enrich the whole modelling community not just those who like to model Allied Subjects.

So perhaps it is the design of the figures that is at fault?

4. Make Your Own'

There have been many useful comments about 'Make your Own' and I like probably every one else already try to do this, to varying degrees of success and failure and it is certainely both enjoyable and one way to try and overcome the problem. However, like many my skills will only go so far and it takes a lot of time.

5. 'Buy More Kits'

I'm on my 3rd set of Tamiya and Dragon Infantry. Most if not all will have been changed or added to to try and create a bit of variery, whether it is adding new heads or alternative poses. I have their first set of Commonwealth Infantry and The MB set. As a consumer that really doesn't go very far to meeting my needs. That means great expense to go resin.

I've been buying Dragon figures since they first came out long before I joined Armorama, they were and are way ahead of the rivals and that is probably why the focus may appear to be on them when it is in fact on the whole Plastic Injection Market.

The Bronco Commet sold out in Hannants in a matter of days. Look at the interest there is in the new range of Shermans or the Char Bis.

So I believe Allied kits will sell well if they are well designed and well thought out and I also believe figure sets will as well.

6. Marketing

I recently bought a Trumpeter LCM for under £10.00. The kit wasn't selling. Why? I have no proof of this, but it might be because it didn't contain a set of Dragon figures as provided with the Italeri kit and modellers opted for a value for money buy (that was the reason I bought the Italeri kit first), or it might have been the reviews?

The question remains is there a Plastic Injection Manufacturer who has the design capabilities to produce quality Allied Figure Sets that appeal to the wider modelling community? If there is, then these kit will still be selling in 20 or 30 years time just like the Tamiya Churchill, The British Infantry On Patrol (How old are they?) and all the rest of the Allied stuff.

So long term profit or short term gain?

Unfortunately we are never going to have the range of subjects we would all like but we could with 5 to 10 more well though out kits have a much better choice.

Given the number of plastic kits produced each year I don't think that is too much to hope for nor do I think that is complaining and if it is complaining well I'm a consumer and I want greater choice and value for my money. LOL, LOL

Cheers all.

Al

Is complaining now a bad word? My wife told me at the dinner table that I could not use the word "stupid" around my 6 year old daughter. As she was told this was a bad word and not to use it. It truly is amazing the PC world we live in where completely useful words are being turned into "hate speach" simply to make a few people sleep better at night.

I have no problem with your opinions Alan. We all have opinions. You and Karl are on a bit of a crusade with this whole topic and that's fine too. Most of us just want to point out some reasons why you may not want to start storming the castle just yet.

I do take exception to your point that Karl's comment in the original news story was just him stating his opinion. It was a rant. He even apologized right after posting it. He even STARTED this topic by saying he was "moaning" about this issue in the other thread. Let's just remember that ranting about something and discussing it usually lead to two different outcomes. This topic has had a little of both from both sides.

Cheers,
Jim

There was a Bronco comet sat on the shelf from the source where you got the LCM from last week, I keep going back and considering it.
Do you want me to check if it is still there?

From both the owner of the shop and listening to customers, it seemed to be the very point that you suggested that the lack of a crew in the Trumpeter kit was the main reason ffor the lack of sales, when both that and the Italeri were alongside each other on the shelf the Italeri version looked more complete, without the need to purchase aftermarket items.

John

Hi Staff _Jim ,

I don't know about being on a crusade but I do feel passionate about the subject.

I do also understand what you and others are trying to say about the reality of the market, but with so few well thought out and flexible kits available, it's still a market that I believe has potential.

Lets face it the British offerings available aren't that exciting, decent enough for what they are, but limited in their use, and truthfully how many of the same kits can you make before you get utterly bored with the poses and trying to think of new ways to build them?

There are some situations that are generic so to speak, the MB Set of German Prisoners for example, that although set with a Russian guard will be used all over the palce and for all kinds of things. In MHO there lies the potential. They might not be as good as the Dragon figures but they can be used in all types of situations and will be bought by both Axis and Allied modellers. Medics, wounded soldiers etc all have that flexability to be used across the board and there simply aren't any Allied ones that I am aware off. (I think I saw some Russians somewhere once).

I don't expect any manufacturer to make kits to please me but every time I spend 7 to 10 pounds on a resin figure that's money not in their pocket and the resin market is big.

Careful and flexible design could easily produce sellable Allied sets. Maybe not lots but certainely a few that would benefit everyone. If the figures have limited potential then so do the sales.

The figures that sparked off this current debate actually had a bit of that in them. Two of the figures were Winter orientated and the other two summer. It's that type of thinking that will make them sell. I'd buy the set just for the medic and the wounded tank man.

As far as Karl's post went I didn't see it as directed at anyone just as a sign of his frustration which I understand and paid it no more mind. As he's aplogised for it then great we all get carried away at times and in the end it comes down to how we interpret things and react to them.

I know many think this is a pointless debate but I don't, as I value peoples ideas and thoughts whether they agree with me or not.

Cheers

Al



Hi John,

Already got mine thanks :-) :-) :-)

Just awaiting those 'Grab Handles' !!!!! :-) :-) :-) :-)

Cheers all

Al

I kinda like the idea that if my wallet isn't enough to make the manufacturers do it then I'm going to clog up every forum I can until they do.

While it is great to hear from a few manufacturers about the profitability of German, are you saying that every German figure and kit outsells every Allied figure and kit? All I am saying is that some of the least popular German kits could have been eliminated and substituted with a more popular Allied subject.

Alan, I think you should stamp your little feet and hold your breath until you turn blue..................it will have about as much effect. :-)

Vinnie

Hi Vinnie,

Nice one :-) :-) :-) and you may well be right, but it only takes one person in one of these companies to decide 'I think we'll do that' and that situation could change.

Stranger things have happened. I still expect to see some new British Infantry and even possibly a Tank crew from Dragon before too long. The crew might come with the kit but a new figure or two is not out of the question.

Cheers

Al

I know Alan since we had the opportunity to "debate" on the Zidane Headbut...
You won't stop him, he's

bloody fingers stuck on the keyboard..
So he's a passionate and love debating..unstopable..
By the way Alan, regarding Zidane and the world cup, we took our revenge against Italy yesterday (3 - 1). It was so good...and I must congratulation to Scotland. Impressive !

Hey Alan and Karl, just one thought : you complain because there is too little commonwealth figures on the market. I suppose you like Brit/commonwealth troops and tanks. I'm the same but with French troops, early and late war. JUST IMAGINE MY FRUSTRATION COMPARED TO YOURS.... :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Salut à vous,

Julien

I was just wondering if and when those British figures come out will you guys think it was because of this?

:-) :-) :-)

For the sake of everyone though I think Jim should contact Dragon and see if we can get any evidence that some allied releases are on the way at least. Perhaps then we can find something else to talk about.

Or Ron perhaps you can use your pull. Just tell them you are going to stop painting Germans on principle so they will need to produce Allied subjects from this point out. That will give Freddie a laugh.

Cheers,
Jim

Well I protest everytime I get tossed out of the bar with about the same effect but it makes me feel better!!

Hi,
As a known German builder, I am happy for the next release of a Wehrmacht or SS subject. I do not mind debating on what I would like to see.
Sure there are thousands of subjects on all sides of WW2 that we would all like to see. Things built in large numbers, small batches, experimental ideas, "what-if's" and speculations. Shoot, I'd like to see a few of the aircraft from the Luftwaffe '46 comics. But what do I know, I'm just a German modeller.
Tristar and Tasca are 2 up and coming alternatives to Dragon for looking for Allied stuff. Anyone seen the new .50 cal or Sherman coming out from Tasca? Well, check it out. But I digress, Tamiya still makes Allied stuff, Academy sure does and what about the new M40 release coming from AFV Club, should make all WW2 Allies freaks drool. Check out the Perth Military Modelling website, they seem to be in the know before anyone else.
I like a good whine or kvetch just like anybody, but let us go on wondering what they will make up next. Seeing people cry in their beer about why no new Allied thingy is becoming a new hobby with me. I do plenty of my own when the German or Axis thingy I want does not come out. So let's pull out the beer to cry in, the soapboxes the whine from and have a wonderful time of it.

To Ron Volstad, love your art.
To Jim Rae and Vinnie, thanks for your opinions.

Chris- I am now stepping down from the soapbox, let the kvetching begin

Hey guy's here's my two penneth,

My favorite period of WWII are the battles in North Africa.

Sure I'd like some figures, but more importantly I'd like to see some early Cruiser tanks A9, A10, A13 Mk I, A13 MkII and A13 Mk III. The prices for accurate armour are too much for my pocket.

Although I must say about ten years ago I managed to bribe my missus into buying me AA's Desert Warrior, soulda' held out for Academy's warrior at least I could of done a better interior.