Hosted by Darren Baker
Black Label M103A1 build
arpikaszabo
Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: February 13, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 09:06 AM UTC
Its not too pretty. I like challenges Cant wait to get one.
dylans
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 05, 2009
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 09:06 AM UTC
that doesn't sound too good Jason.
urumomo
Texas, United States
Joined: August 22, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 09:19 AM UTC
Thanks for posting this , JWest .
I almost ordered it when it popped up at HLJ .
I'm definitely waiting for the competitions' take on it .
I'll be following along -- good luck
Keith
I almost ordered it when it popped up at HLJ .
I'm definitely waiting for the competitions' take on it .
I'll be following along -- good luck
Keith
jwest21
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:26 AM UTC
Ugh...I contacted HLJ for a replacement fender...this one is hopeless (and apparently was microwaved at Dragon HQ or designed by Salvadore Dali's ghost)
DazzaD
South Australia, Australia
Joined: June 17, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:35 AM UTC
Thanks for the info and pictures mate. Sounds quite disappointing for a Dragon kit, a Dragon kit at a premium price to boot.
Now I am in 2 minds, do I just be grateful the 103 has finally been made in plastic and fork out the $$ or go back to the waiting queue and hope some one else has a crack at it.
Can't believe the Object 279 gets done by 3 companies at once and the 103 has taken this long!
Anyway watching your build closely mate, I might need to if I am going to go have to fix this kit too!
Now I am in 2 minds, do I just be grateful the 103 has finally been made in plastic and fork out the $$ or go back to the waiting queue and hope some one else has a crack at it.
Can't believe the Object 279 gets done by 3 companies at once and the 103 has taken this long!
Anyway watching your build closely mate, I might need to if I am going to go have to fix this kit too!
jimbrae
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:51 AM UTC
Jason - thanks for making the effort to post this. Really interesting stuff!
Don't tell me that once again, DML does the full bells and whistles routine with their Axis releases but then screws the proverbial pooch with Allied releases?
Bit of an old story (unfortunately) good, competent asessors and designers for their M4 (and T34s) when they hit the stores, the design has been ignored and we get another lukewarm reléase...
Hopefully Riich or Meng will get interested...
Don't tell me that once again, DML does the full bells and whistles routine with their Axis releases but then screws the proverbial pooch with Allied releases?
Bit of an old story (unfortunately) good, competent asessors and designers for their M4 (and T34s) when they hit the stores, the design has been ignored and we get another lukewarm reléase...
Hopefully Riich or Meng will get interested...
iowabrit
Iowa, United States
Joined: November 06, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 11:13 AM UTC
Looks like I dodged a bullet on that one. I'll wait until Sprue Bros or somebody is selling them off for $30 then I might get one. It's a real shame, I have the Hunnicutt book on American heavies and was amazed that I would soon be able to get three of the vehicles in it. The T28 (another poor kit from Dragon) the M103....same and maybe later this year the M6. The problem is, other manufacturers who DO make an effort will be less willing to invest time and money on such obscure vehicles now that DML have done them.
jimbrae
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 11:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The T28 (another poor kit from Dragon) the M103....same and maybe later this year the M6. The problem is, other manufacturers who DO make an effort will be less willing to invest time and money on such obscure vehicles now that DML have done them.
Couldn't put it better myself....
jwest21
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 11:16 AM UTC
I am thinking maybe I just got a bad kit. If there isn't warping issue, this wouldn't be bad. I think the turret clearance issue is a result of the engine grill side walls being warped. They push up the middle some, causing the shroud to hit the turret. Hopefully I don't have to wait for weeks for a replacement fender.
ceerosvk
Slovakia
Joined: November 25, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:08 PM UTC
Well i definitely wouldnt bet on other companies making this kit, this is no King Tiger with market for itself big enough for 3 companies making the same kit (unless you want to buy a resin kit). I would definitely look at 279 as a lucky exception.
I will buy this kit even though all the obvious flaws - this is one of the tanks i have always wanted but never thought we'd see in plastic and im not going to not get it because of some badly molded fenders and few other things. It indeed is a shame that for such a price its not perfect like most of the Dragon kits but hey, we are plastic kit modelers, not lego builders. Plastic kits are a challenge themselves and in my opinion every skilled modeler should be able to put up with this kinda issues on a kit.
What was wrong with T28 by the way? I know some suspension or something but come on, you can barely see the bottom of roadwheels once its completed. Had absolutely no problems building it and it still is my fav model from my shelf
I will buy this kit even though all the obvious flaws - this is one of the tanks i have always wanted but never thought we'd see in plastic and im not going to not get it because of some badly molded fenders and few other things. It indeed is a shame that for such a price its not perfect like most of the Dragon kits but hey, we are plastic kit modelers, not lego builders. Plastic kits are a challenge themselves and in my opinion every skilled modeler should be able to put up with this kinda issues on a kit.
What was wrong with T28 by the way? I know some suspension or something but come on, you can barely see the bottom of roadwheels once its completed. Had absolutely no problems building it and it still is my fav model from my shelf
C_JACQUEMONT
Loire-Atlantique, France
Joined: October 09, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:19 PM UTC
Quoted Text
What was wrong with T28 by the way? I know some suspension or something but come on, you can barely see the bottom of roadwheels once its completed. Had absolutely no problems building it and it still is my fav model from my shelf
They botched when calculating dimensions, track width is off, the whole width is off. This throws off the whole proportions, when you see the Dragon kit built, just doesn't look right.
I'm glad I still have the Accurate Armour resin kit.
Cheers,
Christophe
ninjrk
Alabama, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 12:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
What was wrong with T28 by the way? I know some suspension or something but come on, you can barely see the bottom of roadwheels once its completed. Had absolutely no problems building it and it still is my fav model from my shelf
They botched when calculating dimensions, track width is off, the whole width is off. This throws off the whole proportions, when you see the Dragon kit built, just doesn't look right.
I'm glad I still have the Accurate Armour resin kit.
Cheers,
Christophe
Beyond that, some significant gaps and trimming needed to get the upper hull to match up with the rear plate, a lot of simplified and missing details, and some pointless photoetch that doesn't add any detail and doesn't actually go together without modifications. It does look impressive when completed though, much like this kit, I suspect.
jwest21
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 02:29 AM UTC
I am setting this aside until I figure out if I can get a replacement fender from Dragon or HLJ
1.90E_31
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 24, 2004
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 02:40 AM UTC
Jason,
On your photo of the M103 with the M48 and M60, it looks like the M103 hull is the same length as the M48 hull. Is this correct or just the perspective from which you photographed these three at?
Jon
On your photo of the M103 with the M48 and M60, it looks like the M103 hull is the same length as the M48 hull. Is this correct or just the perspective from which you photographed these three at?
Jon
jwest21
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 02:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jason,
On your photo of the M103 with the M48 and M60, it looks like the M103 hull is the same length as the M48 hull. Is this correct or just the perspective from which you photographed these three at?
Jon
It is probably just the perspective I honestly didn't compare the two. I can pop off the turrets and take a better pic this evening.
Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 04:48 AM UTC
The 103 is a bit longer than the 48. Not too much, but it is larger, maybe a foot or so. The nose looks the same, but isn't. The position of the driver's compartment is the same relative to the centreline of the turret, but the nose and the front roadwheel station are further forward and all the roadwheels spaced closer together to get the 7th roadwheel into the slightly longer space.
So you have a lower hull that is longer by a foot and an upper hull that is the same length to the driver's station _starting at the back_. This means that the slope of the glasis in front of the driver is shallower to smooth out the contour.
Jason,
It seems like you got a very early kit before, perhaps, they had worked out the production process properly. The warping and especially the distorted/melted front fender are signs that the sprues are coming out of the moulding machine without having had a proper chance to harden. A few more seconds in the tool and this doesn't happen.
Contact DML on their facebook page. Apparently they have been very responsive to messages there.
Paul
So you have a lower hull that is longer by a foot and an upper hull that is the same length to the driver's station _starting at the back_. This means that the slope of the glasis in front of the driver is shallower to smooth out the contour.
Jason,
It seems like you got a very early kit before, perhaps, they had worked out the production process properly. The warping and especially the distorted/melted front fender are signs that the sprues are coming out of the moulding machine without having had a proper chance to harden. A few more seconds in the tool and this doesn't happen.
Contact DML on their facebook page. Apparently they have been very responsive to messages there.
Paul
jwest21
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 04:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The 103 is a bit longer than the 48. Not too much, but it is larger, maybe a foot or so. The nose looks the same, but isn't. The position of the driver's compartment is the same relative to the centreline of the turret, but the nose and the front roadwheel station are further forward and all the roadwheels spaced closer together to get the 7th roadwheel into the slightly longer space.
So you have a lower hull that is longer by a foot and an upper hull that is the same length to the driver's station _starting at the back_. This means that the slope of the glasis in front of the driver is shallower to smooth out the contour.
Jason,
It seems like you got a very early kit before, perhaps, they had worked out the production process properly. The warping and especially the distorted/melted front fender are signs that the sprues are coming out of the moulding machine without having had a proper chance to harden. A few more seconds in the tool and this doesn't happen.
Contact DML on their facebook page. Apparently they have been very responsive to messages there.
Paul
Thanks Paul- I'll try that.
Tiger_213
California, United States
Joined: August 10, 2012
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 05:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted Text
What was wrong with T28 by the way? I know some suspension or something but come on, you can barely see the bottom of roadwheels once its completed. Had absolutely no problems building it and it still is my fav model from my shelf
They botched when calculating dimensions, track width is off, the whole width is off. This throws off the whole proportions, when you see the Dragon kit built, just doesn't look right.
I'm glad I still have the Accurate Armour resin kit.
Cheers,
Christophe
Beyond that, some significant gaps and trimming needed to get the upper hull to match up with the rear plate, a lot of simplified and missing details, and some pointless photoetch that doesn't add any detail and doesn't actually go together without modifications. It does look impressive when completed though, much like this kit, I suspect.
I think Cookie Sewell said it's off by a whole fifteen inches in width. It's just as well really, the Accurate Armor kit is off too from what I understand.
I'm disappointed with what you've shown us so far Jason. Maybe your right and it's just a bad, individual kit, but seventy dollars for what should be a modern kit from one of the best known manufacturers? I think I'll wait till it's a good deal cheaper in ten years. Lets hope we see better from the MBT 70 and M6.
18Bravo
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 07:48 AM UTC
I have to bite my tongue...
blaster76
Texas, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 09:33 AM UTC
Thx for the photo comparison. That is one massive turret. MIne hasnt arrived. I sure hope I dont have the same warping problem. I have waited sooooo long for this kit
KurtLaughlin
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 12:34 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I have to bite my tongue...
What exactly is the point of a post like this? If you don't want to say anything, don't even post. Unless of course, you just want to draw attention to yourself.
The first thing that came into mind when reading this was a little kid skipping down the street singing "Nah, nah, na-nah-na, I know something that you don't! Nah, nah, na-nah-na . . ."
KL
jwest21
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 12:55 PM UTC
OK, go easy. Don't need anything more stressful in this thread
Still waiting for a response from either Dragon or Hobby Link Japan. I'd feel much better knowing a fender was on my way and I just didn't waste $80
Still waiting for a response from either Dragon or Hobby Link Japan. I'd feel much better knowing a fender was on my way and I just didn't waste $80
18Bravo
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI have to bite my tongue...
What exactly is the point of a post like this? If you don't want to say anything, don't even post. Unless of course, you just want to draw attention to yourself.
The first thing that came into mind when reading this was a little kid skipping down the street singing "Nah, nah, na-nah-na, I know something that you don't! Nah, nah, na-nah-na . . ."
KL
Or it could mean I don't want to start another bashing of a much exalted kit. Either way - free country. Nanny nanny boo boo.
jwest21
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:46 PM UTC
Dragon responded on their facebook page and had me send pics and proof of purchase to [email protected]. Odd email, but I sent it. I'll keep you posted. Hoping once I get confirmation I get motivated to work on the rest of the kit
18Bravo
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:56 PM UTC
I'm going to send you some photos. I'd be interested in seeing how well the various turret textures (and there are a few) match up with those on the real thing.