Add me to that list Jason, fenders and track flash.
Dave
Hosted by Darren Baker
Black Label M103A1 build
davidg
Joined: December 28, 2007
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 44 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 02:04 PM UTC
blaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
Armorama: 3,034 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 03:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
My M103 also arrived today, from HLJ. A quick eyeball inspection shows no obvious warping, track flash, or short shots. I hope those were only isolated problems. Despite the discrepancies discussed here, I am very happy just to have an M103a1. Thank you all, by the way, for such in depth analysis of the kit. That is what makes Armoram such a valuable site.
My next project may be a parts swap between the Dragon M48a3 and another M103a1 to build an M48A1 and an M103a2 (Cookie Sewell says you can).
Mine came in today and the first thing i did was check the fenders. Perfect. Oh and my present project is building an M48a1. I have the old resin kit which has been quite enjoyable. Presently working on teh AFV tracks. end connectors aren't sliding onto the track pieces to easily. I used them once beofre on my M88 and they were a dream, so got to figure out how to get them to line up and slide on a whole side again.
IronOwl
Joined: January 07, 2013
KitMaker: 572 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 03:19 PM UTC
After looking again the fenders are as they should be I went back and double checked and as far as I can tell they are correct so my kit is ok. I really don't know what I was thinking when I looked at them the first time. now to figure out when to build it this ones gonna take me a while. 
Sascha(Ironowl)
Sascha(Ironowl)
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 04:01 PM UTC
That's good, Sascha!
Steve- I had the same issue with the AFV Club M46 tracks. They were ridiculously fragile and the end connectors wouldn't stay on at all.
Steve- I had the same issue with the AFV Club M46 tracks. They were ridiculously fragile and the end connectors wouldn't stay on at all.
davidg
Joined: December 28, 2007
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 44 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 01:29 AM UTC
Replacement parts are on their way from IT/DML. Fast response
Dave
Dave
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 03:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Replacement parts are on their way from IT/DML. Fast response
Dave
That's good news. Shipping was pretty fast to the US for me, too.
IrishGreek
Joined: October 17, 2010
KitMaker: 627 posts
Armorama: 571 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 04:34 AM UTC
Well, I just got mine last night from my LHS in Michigan here... Why 2 types of fenders in the kit?
The hull looks good, fit was nice. There was a little flash on one of the tracks. But the fenders that I am supposed to use on this kit (the B sprue ones) are not perfect... Here are a couple shots:
The bottom left one is a short shot and the others are too, but only have ridges, not a hole. Not as bad as some of the others though.
Close up:
What version are these fenders for (J sprue)?
The hull looks good, fit was nice. There was a little flash on one of the tracks. But the fenders that I am supposed to use on this kit (the B sprue ones) are not perfect... Here are a couple shots:
The bottom left one is a short shot and the others are too, but only have ridges, not a hole. Not as bad as some of the others though.
Close up:
What version are these fenders for (J sprue)?
HDSC2D
Joined: March 12, 2013
KitMaker: 170 posts
Armorama: 141 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 04:43 AM UTC
Those fenders are for the A2 version, which had the diesel engine, raised engine deck and air cleaners on the fenders as seen on the M48A3 and M60.
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 04:43 AM UTC
Man, the fenders seem to be a reoccurring issue with them. Look back a couple posts and you'll see a contact email for Dragon. They have been very efficient so far. I have an extra left side fender, if that helps
As for the other set of fenders, those are for use on the M48A3 kit (Not the Mod B one that is currently out, but the other one due out shortly). You use a couple parts on that sprue for this build, so they just threw in the whole sprue.
As for the other set of fenders, those are for use on the M48A3 kit (Not the Mod B one that is currently out, but the other one due out shortly). You use a couple parts on that sprue for this build, so they just threw in the whole sprue.
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 04:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Those fenders are for the A2 version, which had the diesel engine, raised engine deck and air cleaners on the fenders as seen on the M48A3 and M60.
Not sure- the sprue itself says M48 on it and I don't think they are the right size for the M103.
IrishGreek
Joined: October 17, 2010
KitMaker: 627 posts
Armorama: 571 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 04:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Man, the fenders seem to be a reoccurring issue with them. Look back a couple posts and you'll see a contact email for Dragon. They have been very efficient so far. I have an extra left side fender, if that helps
As for the other set of fenders, those are for use on the M48A3 kit (Not the Mod B one that is currently out, but the other one due out shortly). You use a couple parts on that sprue for this build, so they just threw in the whole sprue.
Thanks for the info. I just sent a text to my LHS to see what they say. If they will go directly to the supplier or if they prefer me to. I just wanted to post it so others can see. Overall, very excited about this subject but sorry that the execution could have been even better. A lot of it does look very nice though.
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 05:01 AM UTC
John,
The fenders in the lowest picture (the J Sprue) are for the upcoming DML M48A3 kit. The fender sections between the sponson boxes are for the air cleaners. They appear to be too short for a M103A2 variant,if DML is going to grace us with one.
Besides, the M103A2 has rounded fenders, like a M60 series tank
John
The fenders in the lowest picture (the J Sprue) are for the upcoming DML M48A3 kit. The fender sections between the sponson boxes are for the air cleaners. They appear to be too short for a M103A2 variant,if DML is going to grace us with one.
Besides, the M103A2 has rounded fenders, like a M60 series tank
John
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 07:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
John,
The fenders in the lowest picture (the J Sprue) are for the upcoming DML M48A3 kit. The fender sections between the sponson boxes are for the air cleaners. They appear to be too short for a M103A2 variant,if DML is going to grace us with one.
Besides, the M103A2 has rounded fenders, like a M60 series tank
John
John speaks truth! (Which, knowing John, is a rare enough occurance to be of some note, but I digress...)
All that being ture, there are enough features on those M48 fenders that if you have a spare M60 kit and some sheet plastic, it isn't a terribly hard thing to cobble up longer M103A2 fenders. Since I intend to kitbash an old M60 engine deck and rear hull into an M103A2, I have a ready source of fender parts to go with it.
Not such a big deal, really. The bigger issue (and still not too big) is the different fender supports for the new fenders which will have to be scratchbuilt. Again, a little sheet styrene and a file and it's not too hard.
It's interesting that the fender short-shot problems seem to be exclusively with the M103 sprues and not the M48 fender sprues.
I suspect it's because the M48 kit had a longer development time and they worked out the kinks in production before they started to sell them. The M103 does have some hallmarks of being rushed. The level of detail isn't great, there are some accuracy problems, and the moulding issues aren't ironed out. I wonder if this was put together in a bit of a rush with the intention that it would not be on the market too long? Like a limited issue kit that they wanted to make a quick profit on and them move on?
We'll never know of course and this is all scuttlebutt, so please don't take my musings as anything else but.
Paul
rolf
Joined: August 17, 2004
KitMaker: 301 posts
Armorama: 250 posts
Posted: Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:10 AM UTC
I checked my kit last night and the fenders are not short shot but one of them looks a little warped vertically. Should be fairly easy to straighten out I hope. The rest of the kit looks fine. Damn that is one huge turret.
Roy
Roy
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I checked my kit last night and the fenders are not short shot but one of them looks a little warped vertically. Should be fairly easy to straighten out I hope. The rest of the kit looks fine. Damn that is one huge turret.
Roy
Seems to be a reoccurring theme. Dragon sent me BOTH fenders in replacement and I am only using the right side ones, so if you can't get it to work you can have mine.
DerGeist
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 735 posts
Armorama: 707 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 03:18 AM UTC
Just popped open the M103 the hobby shop I work at received. I'm happy to report the fenders look fine, no irregularities or warping here. The tracks do have some flash, but not as bad as the pics I've seen on here. Overall the kit looks much better than I was expecting. The detail is much finer than the pictures posted here lead me to believe. To anyone on the fence about this kit I recommend, if you have the means, to see the kit in person. You may be pleasantly surprised. If I'm not careful it may follow me home today.
Erik
Erik
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 04:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just popped open the M103 the hobby shop I work at received. I'm happy to report the fenders look fine, no irregularities or warping here. The tracks do have some flash, but not as bad as the pics I've seen on here. Overall the kit looks much better than I was expecting. The detail is much finer than the pictures posted here lead me to believe. To anyone on the fence about this kit I recommend, if you have the means, to see the kit in person. You may be pleasantly surprised. If I'm not careful it may follow me home today.
Erik
Mine is on the way as I type this. Let's hope it's the same condition as you describe.
HDSC2D
Joined: March 12, 2013
KitMaker: 170 posts
Armorama: 141 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 05:02 AM UTC
John speaks truth! (Which, knowing John, is a rare enough occurance to be of some note, but I digress...)
All that being ture, there are enough features on those M48 fenders that if you have a spare M60 kit and some sheet plastic, it isn't a terribly hard thing to cobble up longer M103A2 fenders. Since I intend to kitbash an old M60 engine deck and rear hull into an M103A2, I have a ready source of fender parts to go with it.
Not such a big deal, really. The bigger issue (and still not too big) is the different fender supports for the new fenders which will have to be scratchbuilt. Again, a little sheet styrene and a file and it's not too hard.
It's interesting that the fender short-shot problems seem to be exclusively with the M103 sprues and not the M48 fender sprues.
I suspect it's because the M48 kit had a longer development time and they worked out the kinks in production before they started to sell them. The M103 does have some hallmarks of being rushed. The level of detail isn't great, there are some accuracy problems, and the moulding issues aren't ironed out. I wonder if this was put together in a bit of a rush with the intention that it would not be on the market too long? Like a limited issue kit that they wanted to make a quick profit on and them move on?
We'll never know of course and this is all scuttlebutt, so please don't take my musings as anything else but.
Paul[/quote]
The DML M48A3 Engine deck is the first kit manufacture who has got the correct details of how the engine grills slope down into the hull, especially the grills aft of the air cleaners. All others (Tamiya, Academy, etc.) made the engine grills vertical so it could be pulled out of the mold. Just be aware if you use other kits for your kitbash. Having said that it's not that noticeable especially since the real tool boxes are close to the grills anyway and blocks most of the view.
davidg
Joined: December 28, 2007
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 44 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 08:10 AM UTC
Is the cupola on the M103 the same as the Israeli one on the M48/60series ? I think it is called Urdan by them.
Dave
Dave
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 04:20 PM UTC
Done and ready for paint...I'll post some pre=paint pics tomorrow
billwinkes
Joined: March 20, 2009
KitMaker: 33 posts
Armorama: 28 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 06:22 PM UTC
I've begun my build, very pleasant so far. The hull halves mated very nicely, only a few smears of Tamita grey primer on the seams. The turret halves fit well, be careful to place the receiver for the gun barrel right side up -- the little tang at the base of the barrel should point up.
On the subject of swapping M48A3 engine cover parts to build an M103A2, these components fit the rear of the hull perfectly, but are too short to cover the entire engine area up to part A1. This also implies that the M103 engine cover parts are too long to directly convert the M48A3 to an A1. I'll have to consult some plans to see what sorts of modifications are required.
Bill
On the subject of swapping M48A3 engine cover parts to build an M103A2, these components fit the rear of the hull perfectly, but are too short to cover the entire engine area up to part A1. This also implies that the M103 engine cover parts are too long to directly convert the M48A3 to an A1. I'll have to consult some plans to see what sorts of modifications are required.
Bill
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 03:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
On the subject of swapping M48A3 engine cover parts to build an M103A2, these components fit the rear of the hull perfectly, but are too short to cover the entire engine area up to part A1.
That seems about right:
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 01:50 PM UTC
Finished and ready for paint. I moved the side rails up and added the cast marks. pre-marking the location with a sharpie was a mistake- the color bled through 5 layers of primer 
Also added some spare PE from an old Eduard M60 set, Tiger Model Designs sponson handles and a Pontos gun barrel
Also added some spare PE from an old Eduard M60 set, Tiger Model Designs sponson handles and a Pontos gun barrel billwinkes
Joined: March 20, 2009
KitMaker: 33 posts
Armorama: 28 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 - 05:11 AM UTC
Jason
Your build looks great, an inspiration for mine. I've just completed the basic hull, suspension is next. Hope mine can at least resemble yours. I'm looking to fabricate the fuel drum rack and finish it before Legends or someone else markets one that is 100% better. Thanks again for everyone's input here -- this site is my favorite for armor modeling.
Bill
Your build looks great, an inspiration for mine. I've just completed the basic hull, suspension is next. Hope mine can at least resemble yours. I'm looking to fabricate the fuel drum rack and finish it before Legends or someone else markets one that is 100% better. Thanks again for everyone's input here -- this site is my favorite for armor modeling.
Bill
okievit
Joined: June 18, 2003
KitMaker: 225 posts
Armorama: 206 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 - 05:20 AM UTC
Hey guys,
Just got my kit in. Happy to report that the hull halves and fenders look fine on first inspection. Although my kit came from Hobby Easy, it still included the commander's figure.
Apart from the detail issues with the turret, the biggest blunder seems to be the shape and location of the bulge on the bottom of the rear turret (for the gunner on the straight M103). It looks nothing like the real one, and in the wrong position to boot. Some serious cutting etc. required here, but I'll have to dig up some decent pics of that section first.
Olaf
Just got my kit in. Happy to report that the hull halves and fenders look fine on first inspection. Although my kit came from Hobby Easy, it still included the commander's figure.
Apart from the detail issues with the turret, the biggest blunder seems to be the shape and location of the bulge on the bottom of the rear turret (for the gunner on the straight M103). It looks nothing like the real one, and in the wrong position to boot. Some serious cutting etc. required here, but I'll have to dig up some decent pics of that section first.
Olaf
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