Hosted by Darren Baker
Black Label M103A1 build
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 02:02 PM UTC
OK, cool!
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 03:30 PM UTC
yay! Dragon is airmailing me a replacement fender! Even better, they sent me a tracking number 21 minutes after they first told me they'd replace it. Very impressive
blaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 03:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
yay! Dragon is airmailing me a replacement fender! Even better, they sent me a tracking number 21 minutes after they first told me they'd replace it. Very impressive
So glad to hear that. I had kind of thought when i got mine that if it was warped like that i just would have bent it up some more to simulate bad head space and timing on my driver. But now i know to notify Dragon for replacement
DazzaD
Joined: June 17, 2007
KitMaker: 235 posts
Armorama: 232 posts
Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 06:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
It seems like you got a very early kit before, perhaps, they had worked out the production process properly. The warping and especially the distorted/melted front fender are signs that the sprues are coming out of the moulding machine without having had a proper chance to harden. A few more seconds in the tool and this doesn't happen.
I really hope that is the case and it would explain what Jason has seen in this kit so far. It would be great news for the rest of us looking to buy it. Not so good for anyone who pre-ordered.
Either way it is an ordinary effort releasing (dumping) the early kits with the problems. I guess we will find out soon enough. As more people's kits start to arrive we will see if they are all warped or the issue sorts it's self out.
Tiger_213
Joined: August 10, 2012
KitMaker: 1,510 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2014 - 07:17 PM UTC
DML is usually pretty good about replacements from what I understand. Their office/ warehouse is somewhere around L.A. so you should get your part this week.
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 03:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
DML is usually pretty good about replacements from what I understand. Their office/ warehouse is somewhere around L.A. so you should get your part this week.
I will say I've had very good luck with DragonCare the 3-4 times I've had problems. They had the stuff at my house within 3-4 days of starting the case.
Matt
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 03:13 AM UTC
Yeah, I have had good experience until the last one I did- I bought their Stug IV with zimmerit and the kit was missing the lower hull. I filed with them last summer and still haven't received a replacement. They keep telling me they are waiting on Dragon itself.
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 04:20 AM UTC
Wow, I've been wanting one of these. I wonder if they will rework the kit? I'm not up for more than 'shake-the-box' kits anymore. 
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 04:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Wow, I've been wanting one of these. I wonder if they will rework the kit? I'm not up for more than 'shake-the-box' kits anymore.
In talking with the people at Dragon, I am convinced that my problems are more of a one-off situation and not something that will be in every kit. Except for the fender, everything else is workable.
Tiger_213
Joined: August 10, 2012
KitMaker: 1,510 posts
Armorama: 1,443 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 05:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yeah, I have had good experience until the last one I did- I bought their Stug IV with zimmerit and the kit was missing the lower hull. I filed with them last summer and still haven't received a replacement. They keep telling me they are waiting on Dragon itself.
Really? That's shameful. Unless maybe your kit is out-of-production? I don't remember it being that long since they started doing StuGs with simmering but maybe that's just me.
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 05:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextYeah, I have had good experience until the last one I did- I bought their Stug IV with zimmerit and the kit was missing the lower hull. I filed with them last summer and still haven't received a replacement. They keep telling me they are waiting on Dragon itself.
Really? That's shameful. Unless maybe your kit is out-of-production? I don't remember it being that long since they started doing StuGs with simmering but maybe that's just me.
Not sure...this one was from the Zimmerit kit and that may be causing the issue.
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 05:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm going to send you some photos. I'd be interested in seeing how well the various turret textures (and there are a few) match up with those on the real thing.
Indeed.
One point I can see from the photos is that the bulge on the turret for the sight was an added feature as the tanks were upgraded from 103 to 103A1. There shuold be a weld all around that bump. And the texture of teh bump is different than the surrounding turret on three-four vehicles I've seen where teh texture is visible. The truret is rather coarse while the bulge is really nice and smooth.
But that's not a big thing, just something you can play with to enhance your kit if you want.
The bulge under the turret bustle is wrongly shaped though, and in a fairly big way. Hard to describe teh proper shape thuogh, but look closely at photos.
I do hope the turret or hull isn't off by 15 in.
Do you have a link to where Cookie's comments are?
Paul
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 05:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI'm going to send you some photos. I'd be interested in seeing how well the various turret textures (and there are a few) match up with those on the real thing.
Indeed.
One point I can see from the photos is that the bulge on the turret for the sight was an added feature as the tanks were upgraded from 103 to 103A1. There shuold be a weld all around that bump. And the texture of teh bump is different than the surrounding turret on three-four vehicles I've seen where teh texture is visible. The truret is rather coarse while the bulge is really nice and smooth.
But that's not a big thing, just something you can play with to enhance your kit if you want.
The bulge under the turret bustle is wrongly shaped though, and in a fairly big way. Hard to describe teh proper shape thuogh, but look closely at photos.
I do hope the turret or hull isn't off by 15 in.
Do you have a link to where Cookie's comments are?
Paul
I quickly compared the kit turret to a close up of the M103A2 turret and noticed the discrepancy on bulge under the turret bustle. I saw someone mentioned that there was a difference in the A1 and A2 turrets. Is this one area that would be the same?
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 05:31 AM UTC
What I see is that the turret looks like the one on this plain M103 here: http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/pics/m103heavy.html
which doesn't look like the turret on the M103A2 picture I have at home. Later this evening, I try to post some comparison pics between the kit and pics I pull off the internet
which doesn't look like the turret on the M103A2 picture I have at home. Later this evening, I try to post some comparison pics between the kit and pics I pull off the internet
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 05:33 AM UTC
Paul, do you have a picture of where the missing weld seam is? I may add it, since I am waiting on the replacement part anyway.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 05:28 PM UTC
I find the texture along the lower edge of the turret to be (apparently) quite hard to replicate in plastic. In real life it's much like the M47 - it looks like clay that has been carved away with a knife.
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 12:34 AM UTC
Well, mine shipped from DragonUSA so it will be interesting to see if it has the same warping issues.
jon_a_its
Joined: April 29, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 01:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Textyay! Dragon is airmailing me a replacement fender! Even better, they sent me a tracking number 21 minutes after they first told me they'd replace it. Very impressive
So glad to hear that. I had kind of thought when i got mine that if it was warped like that i just would have bent it up some more to simulate bad head space and timing on my driver. But now i know to notify Dragon for replacement
A pre-bendered Fender? excelent!
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 02:08 AM UTC
I find the texture along the lower edge of the turret to be (apparently) quite hard to replicate in plastic. In real life it's much like the M47 - it looks like clay that has been carved away with a knife.
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 04:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I find the texture along the lower edge of the turret to be (apparently) quite hard to replicate in plastic. In real life it's much like the M47 - it looks like clay that has been carved away with a knife.
I would think it would be tough to pull off in 35th without it looking like your 5 year did it.
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 05:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI find the texture along the lower edge of the turret to be (apparently) quite hard to replicate in plastic. In real life it's much like the M47 - it looks like clay that has been carved away with a knife.
I would think it would be tough to pull off in 35th without it looking like your 5 year did it.
It's not difficuly, just tedious. You use a dremel with a large diameter (1/16 or so) burr cutter and gently (gently) carve the trowel marks into the plastic. I've done it, it's not hard, your hand just cramps up after a while.
Quoted Text
I find the texture along the lower edge of the turret to be (apparently) quite hard to replicate in plastic. In real life it's much like the M47 - it looks like clay that has been carved away with a knife.
You're close, it is marks in sand made by a trowel.
These hulls and turrets are sand cast. That means they are literally pour the metal into sand moulds and these hollow sand moulds can be relatively fragile and somewhat inexact. After the patterns are pulled from the sand, leaving the hollow for the metal to fill, they align the moulds and check for flaws in the sand. Places where sand has fallen out, they patch and trowel smooth. Places where the two moulds have some mould shift, they trowel the excess off and smooth by hand or the trowls.
OK the image below is huge, and the colour doesn't lend itself to picking out subtle details, but if you look closely, you can see where the sight bulge was welded in as a sort of rectangular plug.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/M103_heavy_tank.jpg
This image is closer to the bulge, but this time the welder took a great deal of time and smoothed out the weld beads by grinding after it was installed. The bulge plug is now more rounded at the bottom, as well.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kAJxSSk33Fk/Ui5T7P2Cz0I/AAAAAAAAAZY/THOyCa8SgOg/s1600/101_1227.JPG
So there is variation and different amounts of the weld you can discern after weathering.
The last photo also shows the texture of the trowel marks on the turret. These are a combination of trowel marks, and grinder marks from grinding away the mould seam between the parts of the sand mould for the casting.
Quoted Text
I quickly compared the kit turret to a close up of the M103A2 turret and noticed the discrepancy on bulge under the turret bustle. I saw someone mentioned that there was a difference in the A1 and A2 turrets. Is this one area that would be the same?
The A1 and A2 turrets were different only in detail. The A2s were made from the A1s, so the basic structure is the same for both. Look at the picture 3/4 of the way down the page you point to, the one from the Patton Museum where you can see the underside of the turret bustle clearly. The large bulge of the kit is not there, but there is a small localised bulge to the right of centre that was for, as the site says, the gunner's seat in the plain M103, but with the new sights of the A1 he was moved forward, yet the bulge remains.
HTH
Paul
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 06:49 AM UTC
Thanks for that info. Then, to my untrained eye, the back of the turret where the bustle rack attaches is narrower in the kit than on the real thing. I need to get pictures to illustrate what I mean- fell asleep early last night
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 07:37 AM UTC
Paul,
If you would like more shots of the first M103A1, it is in Oklahoma City at the 45th ID Museum, where we do our AMPS meetings... I guess that I could take a couple more pics for you, if you would like and bring them to AMPS in April...
John
If you would like more shots of the first M103A1, it is in Oklahoma City at the 45th ID Museum, where we do our AMPS meetings... I guess that I could take a couple more pics for you, if you would like and bring them to AMPS in April...
John
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 10:13 AM UTC
Hi John,
That's the very one I sent him photos of. It's a beast, isn't it? (I thought it's an A2 though)
I also have the ones at Ft. Lewis and Camp Shelby.
That's the very one I sent him photos of. It's a beast, isn't it? (I thought it's an A2 though)
I also have the ones at Ft. Lewis and Camp Shelby.
DazzaD
Joined: June 17, 2007
KitMaker: 235 posts
Armorama: 232 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 11:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
yay! Dragon is airmailing me a replacement fender! Even better, they sent me a tracking number 21 minutes after they first told me they'd replace it. Very impressive
Wow, that is impressive customer service! I wonder do they send out that part or the sprew that contains it. I wouldn't want that job of removing all the requested parts from 1000s of random kits
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