I LOVE that Sig-Line Banner Matt!

Gunnie :-)

Yoda's Forum post got me motivated to do it!!!!!!

Awesome Matt You got to love it

Holy Mackeral matt!!!!! Superb work Sir! Good composition, nice images, and a balanced display.........you sure you're not a professional!?!

Good on ya matt.

Tread.

can i join in for this year,

ive got a few plans, but can some one email me the story line so i can check if they fit in,

obviously they will have to be british vehicles!

cheers

joe

HHHHMMMMMM a roll over will give me a chance to finish my entry for the 2003 campaign
which is nearly 50 built! another year and we should be there!

greatbrit,

Story sent!!!

The lovely weather up here in the great (white) Northeast has me wanting to build.......But it's too cold to Build my workbench without freezing..........The bench will get built must keep saying that..... #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-)

Howdy matt,

Do you own a chainsaw? If you do, then just start that baby up and carve yourself a modeling bench out of a passing ice flo! It'll last ya till May.
And if your tussie get's a wee bit too cold, just get up and a little to get the blood flowing again!

Tread. #:-)

It's so cold I don't think it would start!! hehehe...........

thanks for the story matt,

i got the styrene sheet out last night, and started adding to tamiyas old centurion,

i was inspired by the magdach 7c, so im building an israeli centurion upgraded with extra armour,

ill post some pics as soon as i can

cheers

joe

Howdy greatbrit,

So very glad to have you aboard the T2K express! Believe me, you'll find lots of interesting happenings going on throughout this Campaign. The creativity will astonish you!
While you're building your Centurion, you might want to start formulating a short story to go with your creation. Our good member GIB is compiling a 'novella' of sorts to go along with the Campaign. It is intended to make every effort at incorporating every participating Campaign members T2K '04 entries.......think about it.

Good luck with your Centurion M8!


Tread.

after speaking to matt in chat, i was thinking of a way to integrate british forces into the story.

the original story doesnt mention britain getting nuked, so maybe we were missed out by the russkies!

hhmm second suez landings, in support of the eygpt/israel alliance!,

got some ideas now!

cheers tread

joe

Greatbrit: Sorry to say this but when I said in the storyline that the West and the USSR got nuked, I do mean THE WHOLE West (and that includes the UK - ESPECIALLY the UK, with its Vanguard SSBNs posing as a nuke threat, the UK performing the role once again as the 'unsinkable carrier'). Moscow would not, in its right mind, leave London, Birmingham, and Manchester standing in their full glory whilst Leningrad, Mink, and Moscow itself burn from Trident D-5 hits. Besides, with tactical nukes hitting NATO units - which includes the BAOR - in Poland at their counter-offensive, I'm sure Her Majesty and the UK PM would not stand idly by the side and will surely reply in kind.

So, yes, Washington DC, Detroit, San Francisco, London, Birmingham, and practically all of the USSR west of the Ural mountains are now black glass parking lots.

But (!) and I do mean 'but', British forces are still available in Twilight 2000 campaigns. You can still build a British subject and the story will still be set in Europe. OR there might still be a few British units around the world, say an armor brigade in Kuwait as a holdover from the 1991 Gulf War (part of the UK's commitment in securing the Mideast after the 1991 Gulf War). THEN there's the US-led UN contingent sent to Korea in the Second Korean War which I see the UK participating in one form or the other (take your pick: RN, RAF, RM, SAS, SBS, BA)

BTW, so sorry that I missed your post asking for the storyline. I'll send you the current draft of the story in Europe ASAP. The story of your build (if set in Europe) will be placed in the "Forgotten Dispatches" supplement for TW2K:03 storyline. I'm also building two subjects whose stories are set in Europe (they are holdovers from the previous year's campaign) and they will be in the 'Forgotten Dispatches' part.

Having said that, I see no problems for you to build a British subject in this campaign. :-)

Gib...Are you SURE Detroit was hit?? The war occured while Detroit was in the midst of its' rather severe decline, both as a city and as the world's center of manufacturing. My version of the history spared Detroit, it was considerd a secondary target, and the ICBMs destined for it were taken out by a US ICBM strike. If I am wrong...its' OK, I'll need a re-write on my story, as it is based on conflict between a confederation of Detroit's rogue Gangs and folks who fled the urban area of Southeast Michigan to join native residents of rural areas in northern Michigan where attiutdes and conditions were more able to support a sense of nation and survival.

As always I will defer to the master storyline. Just hoping!

Thanks

I missed this one the last time around.
I played this game a lot when I was in college and before I got married and even wrote a fictional story about my National Guard unit in the war.
So my first project will be to finish the tank my NG unit used the M60A4 (the M60A3TTS rebuilt with 120mm gun , rotory shock abosrbers, new CWS and loader's MG and reinforced reactive armor)
After that maybe an M1A2 Giraffe as depicted by the game.

Jaster: Nope, not sure. :-) If you wrote that it survived, then it survived. :-) I wrote said post with the thought that Detroit was still a major industrialized city. But I'm sure the other bigger cities and capitals of the West are now pretty much black glass in the Twilight storyline.

BTW, where are the Abrams built?

Bravo: Cool! An M1A3 Giraffe! Now THAT I'd like to see. :-)

Hmmmm...."Black Glass", neat name for a T2K '04 entry don't you think?

Tread.

Yes - according to the historical background and Referee Manuals - many of the major population centers suffered major damage/nuclear strikes in the escalating war. There was no all-out volley of missiles lobbed across the Arctic Circle - but a slow, escalating, tit-for-tat that began with individual units getting hit in Europe in tactical exchanges, that grew to include rear command centers, and then bases from which retalitory strikes might be launched.

Within six months, this began to include major population centers that might contribute war materiel and equipment - to include Detroit and the larger cities in the US. Some targets, like New York and Los Angeles suffered multiple nuclear strikes because of different assets located in their metropolitan areas - like US Space Command's Los Angeles Air Force Base - which a lot of residents drive past but probably forget it's there because there is no "runway" and planes flying out of it. It is a critical component of how the US would wage war in space, however.

As the devastation mounted, and the capacity to wage war on multiple and then even single fronts diminished, so did the strikes with the big warheads. Would it be helpful to list these areas hardest hit in the actual game system - or would you rather make/take your own view of what happened in our exercise?

Gunnie

I've got a copy of the main book @ home...i'll dig through it.

Actually Gunnie, if the other's don't mind, some form of 'touchstone' would be dramatically helpful to those of us who are not entirely familiar with the T2K storyline.
This is not to say that we cannot 'tweak' it to fit within our own parameters. Our good member GIB's evolving storyline, which is a compilation of all our own storylines being the deciding factor.
But, Yes! At least a mention of what is NOT and what IS (by this I mean population centres) would be somewhat helpful.........
Thx.

Tread.


Waaaaaaaait a minute...you've got enough on you plate already, so forget what I just said Please!

Allow me to 'edit' one more time...

Can someone please be kind enough to tell me which Southwestern U.S. cities survived at least fairly intact? And I'm talking about the Phoenix, Tucson, El Paso, Albequrque, Northern Mexico, (especially the El Paso area) and east towards Dallas/Fort Worth.......Thx.
The reason I ask for this is because my storyline is based along those lines. More precisely along the Interstate 10 artery that runs along the southern border of the U.S.

Tread - the Southwestern Areas you mentioned are interesting - site of the Red Star Lone Star Campaign Module.

Houston was hit hard - all oil producing areas were - late in the nuclear exchanges. However, not totally decimated. There are maruading bands of Texas Nationals (who naturally want the rebirth of the Texas (Independent) Republic) roaming about the region. Soviet Division Cuba joined Mexican forces and thrust into Texas and New Mexico - pounding the 49th Armored Division in the initial thrust. Reinforcements came from the North (Michigan region) to rebuild the 49th - and there is an uneasy stalemate in Northern Texas/Southern Oklahoma. At the time of Twilight: 2000 (July 2000) the 49th is slowly regaining enough equipment and firepower to take on Soviet Division Cuba.

Soviet Division Cuba, however, is nearly broken in morale, and desparately wants to disengage the US forces. Their early victories cost them dearly. They've just discovered that there is still an operating Oil Platform just off the coast near Brownsville. With that oil, they can withdraw sucessfully and return to Cuba - getting out of the war altogether. In one last act, the commander of Soviet Division Cuba is taking his crack troops down to Brownsville in order to sieze that oil platform - vowed to plow through both the Americans and Texians along the way...

Gaming in Texas and New Mexico is quite an adventure - to say the least. It is the Wild Wild West. The roving bands of Texians, Americans, Mexicans, and Soviets are fierce and experienced fighters - and armed with sophisticated weaponry sometimes. Any and all might join in a fight against you - just because you're there and have something they might want.

Large portions of the tanker basin in Houston is rubble from nuke strikes - both from the global exchange and some tactical strikes when the Mexicans and Soviets invaded. There is nuclear rubble in the vicinity of Brownsville - but the tanker basin is navigable.

All of this from memory - hopefully I painted an interesting picture for you. The cities are relatively deserted. Outlaw communities pepper the roads leading in and out. The Soviet/Mexican Bloc fought the US out on the plains and flat expanses of Texas. Many roads are still passable - that is - if you pay the local Land Baron...

The Southwest (out towards Arizona and California) is relatively stable. Not much in the way of nuclear rubble or fallout - but much civil disorder. In Southern California, bands of Mexicans staged an uprising in the aftermath of the destruction of Los Angeles. The LA Basin is a civil war zone. Many Mexicans are attempting to reclaim their land (California) lost to the US centuries ago. This civil movement extends through Central California as far north as the San Jose/Coyote Valley area. Much civil unrest - and no real concentration of firepower and force in either the US Military Government or the US Civilian Government to squash the lawlessness. The small US Army National Guard unit stationed in San Jose is pretty much the only cohesive fighting unit in this area still operating.

Your trip down Interstate 10 will be pretty exciting and dangerous through Texas and Louisiana. Not so much so through New Mexico and Arizona. It will get treacherous again as you enter the LA Basin.

Gunnie

GIB- I think the Abrams is built in Lima, Ohio. I am 99% sure on this. It is approx. 150 miles south of Detroit.

Gunnie/GIB/All;

I'm thinking that we need to stick to one basic CORE T2K STORY...or else poor GIBs job of weaving this monster together will be impossible!

Gunnie, you already do so much that it is not reasonable to ask you to do the story coordination as well. Where do you draw your info from?? Is it feasible to pass it (electronically or otherwise) along to me. I'd be willing to try and distill it down to a set of guidelines. Maybe a timeline sort of. That could provide the framework for everyones story to fit together!

When I started writing my part of the T2K story I arbitrarily decided Detroit survived...because it made it easier for MY story, But this is a group effort now, and there needs to be some underlying structure. If you (or anyone else) can pass on the info I'll take a shot a coordinating the BASE STORY.

Input, thoughts, comments requested...

Wow....................thx. To answer your question Gunnie my friend, YES! You did paint an interesting mental picture for me! Something I can definitely work with. :-)
But! As Jaster has so kindly pointed out, you do [b]too]/b] much already. We do need to figure out a baseline, or as I referrred to it, a 'touchstone' of sorts. Since it seems you have a significant grasp of the base storyline (and probably a good deal more), would it make sense to pass some of this info onto someone like Jaster who can then take it and confer with GIB regarding story cohesiveness, and hash it all out with input from all of us with you as the ramrod? This way you could just drop in and keep an eye on everything instead of it becoming a drain on you.
Make sense?......

Ya know, the thought just crossed my mind, that Gunnie's not the type of person to feel 'comfortable' passing the responsibility to anyone else but himself..........I'm right aren't I?
But we have to do something to relief his burden...........any more thought's anyone???

thoughts from a friend Gunnie,

Tread.

Re:Storyline, actually, the TW2K:04 storyline is in a better state than the TW2K:03 storyline. For one thing, the TW2K:04 storyline has already a beginning and an end. Well, sort of.

I sent Greatbrit the latest draft of the TW2K:04 storyline. It includes the following:

a) The run-up to the Second Korean War
b) Parts of the siege of Seoul
c) The Main Line of Resistance known as the Taejon Line
d) Operation Majestic - a massive amphibious assault at Wonsan by Allied forces
e) Nuclear and chemical attack by NoKor, followed by nuke retalliation by the USA
f) The origins of the Middle East War
g) Operation Gate Keeper (the withdrawal of CENTCOM forces from Saudi Arabia to Kuwait and the UAE)
h) The Middle East War proper - assault into Jordan, Egypt, and Northern Israel
i) Stopping the tide - the regaining of the Golan, the stagnation of Libya's army
j) NBC exchange

As I see Armorama's version of Twilight 2000, the timeline is like this:

Late 1998 - Death of Ghadafi (sp?), Iran and Libya form renewed alliance
BroAbrams' Birthday, 1999 - Start of the Second Korean War
March 1999 - Invasion of the USSR into Poland, starting the European war
Mid-March - Invasion of the USSR into Alaska, Battle of Berlin; Coup in Saudi Arabia, overthrow of Royal Family, military alliance between Saudi Arabia, Iran and Libya
2nd week of April - Operation Majestic; USSR stops siege of Berlin, goes on defensive.
3rd week of April - End of the Second Korean War proper with a nuke exchange, Korea radiated, Tokyo burns; NATO reinforcements arrive (and I do mean reinforcements - the hi-tech armor of the original Twilight 2000 story by Tantalus has arrived - M1A3 Giraffes, laser ADAs, etc.) and form up, NATO counter-offensive towards Poland
4th week of April - US counter-offensive at Alaska, Battle of Kalisz where the NATO counter-offensive bogs down, tactical nuclear strikes by the USSR all along the Polish-Czech theatre, quickly running up to retalliatory tactical nuke strikes by NATO aircraft and missile batteries as well as tactical nuclear strikes by US forces against Soviets in Alaska, then USSR retalliates with strategic nuke strikes at NATO capitals, NATO retalliates within 5 minutes of launch warning its strategic nuclear strikes, NATO countries and USSR turning to glass
2nd week of May - Iran 'liberates' Iraq, Pan-Islamic alliance formalized. Members: (Africa) Libya, Sudan, Morocco, Tunisia, Ethiopia (Middle East) Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan
4th week of May - Indian-Chinese invasion of Pakistan; Chinese invasion of Siberia and Korean peninsula; PLA airborne drops at Fairbanks, Alaska
1st week of June - Operation Gate Keeper, withdrawal of US/UK forces in Saudi Arabia to Kuwait and UAE; minor nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan; Mexico invades Texas and California
July - Invasion of Israel, Egypt and Jordan from Libya, Sudan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Iraq; attempted invasion of Kuwait by Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia; attempted invasion of UAE by Iran, Yemen and Saudi Arabia; guerilla warfare in Pakistan against China and India
Last week of July - NBC warfare in Middle East; China conquers Korea, signs non-aggression pact with Japan, consolidates hold in Siberia, starts massing troops in Alaska; India consolidates hold in Pakistan; Australia, New Zealand, and Southeast Asian countries form alliance to counter Indian-Chinese Pact; South America asserts itself in the Western Hemisphere; war and continued internal strife in CONUS

From July 1999 all the way to 2020 (when the human race finally has had enough of war, AI has been perfected, and sanity prevailed hehehe), strife continues as countries and pseudo-states appear and disappear. By 2020, sanity prevails, human kind starts rebuilding. The 'book' was written in 2025 or 2030. By 2070, the Man vs. Machine War starts, 2080 Man is enslaved by the Machine, the Matrix is created. By 2300, Neo version 7.0 comes in, saves Zion, balance restored. 2400 an asteriod hits Buenos Aires, trajectory computed and found it originated in a planet full of large bugs, Earth launches invasion fleet or starships and starship troopers. 2700 A Monolith is found on the Moon, 2750 Jupiter becomes a second sun. 5001 The second sun dies off, Human civilization as we know it has disappeared; evolution at Europa accelerated while the second Sun was still burning, colonizes and terraforms Jupiter system, then Mars, then Earth. By 10,000, the silmaril is stolen by Ungoliath on orders of Morgoth, then a few thousand years later the War of the Ring starts, Aragorn II becomes King, weds Arwen... I could go on and on... #:-)

That's the rough timeline of the storyline - Armorama 'version' that is. Suggestions are welcome.

BTW, I've placed a 'war in space' part in the TW2K:04 storyline, involving anti-satellite operations.

Jaster: Ok, I forgot that the Abrams was built at Lima, Ohio. For some reason, I thought of 'Chrysler' and 'Detroit' when I asked the query on where the Abrams was built hehehe :-)