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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Panther Sd.Kfz.171 Ausf.A
Thirian24
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 08:29 AM UTC
I decided to toss this together. It only has three sprues so it should go together in a flash.

Doing this while the paint cures on the Panzer and Tiger.

May as well build another while I wait. Lol. Call me crazy.

This is Tamiya's 35065. I know some people have said this kit has issues, it doesn't bother me any.

This is OOB no PE.

Cheers,
Dustin
Armorsmith
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 09:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I decided to toss this together. It only has three sprues so it should go together in a flash.

Doing this while the paint cures on the Panzer and Tiger.

May as well build another while I wait. Lol. Call me crazy.

This is Tamiya's 35065. I know some people have said this kit has issues, it doesn't bother me any.

This is OOB no PE.

Cheers,
Dustin



You're right by today's standards it's a real dog of a kit but back in the 70s it was the only game in town. A kit like this(since it's rather inexpensive) is good for trying and experimenting with new techniques. Some things you should do at the very least is to fill in the motorization holes/slots using sheet plastic and putty/filler. These tend to be rather large and will be noticeable on the finished kit. You might also consider closing off the sponsons, the area immediately above the top track run. While not really critical if you close up the hatches it's good practice. Despite being a poor kit by todays standards, I remember it fondly as the very first Tamiya kit I built as a teenager in the 70s.

Some clarification on German nomenclature. The word Panzer is derived from PanzerKampfwagen(PzKfw)meaning armored fighting vehicle. Therefore, Panzer the generic term for all German tanks. The second kit you built is the PzKfw IVJ, meaning a mark IV tank of the J series. The different series refer to major modifications/changes/upgrades in the mark since the first one introduced. So for the Pz IV that means that there were quite a few series that came before the J, namely A-H each with its own specific characteristics that made it unique but all sharing the same chassis. This is a general explanation and certainly not to be taken as definitive in term of details. Rather confusing I know but I think you are interested and wanted to set you on the right path.

Noticed someone is trying to start a Dog Campaign. This kit would certainly qualify. Have fun with it.
Thirian24
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 09:12 AM UTC
Thank you Armorsmith!

Yes I can tell just by working with this kit slightly and reading the directions, it's nothing like the other two. Lol

Where can I buy the plastic sheet? How thick?

Thank you for that info, I was really wondering about that. So is my title correct? Have any if my titles been correct? Lol

Cheers sir,
Dustin
GazzaS
#424
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 09:22 AM UTC
I built this kit back in 1984... Or something.... Anyway, I thought it was wonderful, and better than anything else I could find at the stores. Looked like a Panther, went together nicely and looked sweet all painted up. I had no idea it would ever be considered a dog. Is the Tamiya Tiger if the same vintage considered a dog, too?

Gary
Thirian24
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 09:22 AM UTC
I cut this piece of sprue off and this piece of flat part. I can glue it in behind the notch and then fill it with putty. Thoughts?



Thirian24
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 09:26 AM UTC
Gary,

I've read on some posts that the scale is off.

Other than that, from what I see, is there is a lot of flash and the directions could really use some updating.

But I like it and it'll give me the much needed practice.

Cheers,
Dustin
Armorsmith
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 09:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I cut this piece of sprue off and this piece of flat part. I can glue it in behind the notch and then fill it with putty. Thoughts?




That will work fine. Sheet plastic can be bought at your LHS or online. Evergreen is a popular brand and comes in many sized and shapes including tubes, rods and strips. Great for scratch building and adding some details. Don't really know what size off hand just kind of eyeball it.

As for your title Panther Sd.kfz. 171 A. Panther is the unofficial name of this particular tank. Sd.Kfz. 171A is the official German Army designation. It is the abbreviation for SonderKraftZug meaning special purpose vehicle. Oddly enough for the Panther the A does not denote the first in the series but the second. The first was the Panther D. The reason escapes me. The A was followed by the G which was further differentiated by the early and late. Once you begin to build your reference library you'll become more familiar with these things so not to worry. I had absolutely no clue about any of this when I started building.
Thirian24
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 09:42 AM UTC
Lol, I know what you mean.. I look at all of these abbreviations on all of this German equipment and I'm like... Ok why does are there 20 different numbers/abbreviations.. And what does it mean! Lol

I definitely need to build my library. On that note, I received Tigers in the Mud, today.

Cheers,
Dustin
Armorsmith
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 10:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Lol, I know what you mean.. I look at all of these abbreviations on all of this German equipment and I'm like... Ok why does are there 20 different numbers/abbreviations.. And what does it mean! Lol

I definitely need to build my library. On that note, I received Tigers in the Mud, today.

Cheers,
Dustin



Don't know how much background you have on WWII in Russia but if it's non existent or only minor a word of advice if I may. When reading Tigers in The Mud don't get too bogged down with all the details of the war in terms of place names or battles since you will have little or no context in which to place them. Focus instead on his experience and what the war was like from his point of view and what combat was like for a panzer commander and his crew.

The other option would familiarize yourself with the course of the war on the Eastern Front in general so that you do have that context. For that there are a number of general histories that you may wish to consult although off the top of my head I can't recall any specific titles at the moment.
Thirian24
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 10:19 AM UTC
I've read some things, but haven't retained any of it, as it was when I was younger. I think I'll take your advice and read it now, and then familiarize myself better with that part of the war and read it again.

One track on, it obviously needs glued down.



Cheers,
Dustin
Thirian24
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 10:28 AM UTC
How big was the Panther compaired to the Tiger 1?

I have these two side by side and the panther seems longer. Is this correct, or is this the scale problem that people talk about with this kit?
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 10:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I built this kit back in 1984... Or something.... Anyway, I thought it was wonderful, and better than anything else I could find at the stores. Looked like a Panther, went together nicely and looked sweet all painted up. I had no idea it would ever be considered a dog. Is the Tamiya Tiger if the same vintage considered a dog, too?

Gary


Yes, the original Tamiya Tiger was way off by today's standards, but it was the best we had, and many amazing models were built using both kits.

Tamiya's Panther Ausf. A turret is simply the wrong shape (far too wide in front). To do an accurate Panther back in the seventies, you mated the Tamiya Panther A hull with the turret from Nichimo's Panther G, with a slab of .060" styrene glued to the front to correct the length, and the "chin" style mantlet backdated to the round type. The middle set of road wheels was molded as one fat wheel on the Tamiya chassis, and you could try to modify the Nichimo wheels, or just live with it. In the eighties, the first Model Kasten (non-workable) styrene tracks became available, which was a huge improvement.

Tamiya's old Tiger had a too-long barrel, a cupola with no vision slits, a symmetrical turret shell (the real one bulges out on one side), and again, the inner set of wheels was depicted as one fat wheel instead of a pair. And both kits featured vinyl tracks with no hinge detail on the inner face (although the motorized boxings featured black rubber tracks that looked more like fan belts than tank tracks--they worked for a while, but over time, the rubber would dry out and crumble, and of course, they couldn't be painted).

Eventually, Tamiya, Gunze Sangyo, Italeri and other makers jumped in with better offerings, but it took a remarkably long time to get these two tanks right.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 02:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I cut this piece of sprue off and this piece of flat part. I can glue it in behind the notch and then fill it with putty. Thoughts?




That will work fine. Sheet plastic can be bought at your LHS or online. Evergreen is a popular brand and comes in many sized and shapes including tubes, rods and strips. Great for scratch building and adding some details. Don't really know what size off hand just kind of eyeball it.

As for your title Panther Sd.kfz. 171 A. Panther is the unofficial name of this particular tank. Sd.Kfz. 171A is the official German Army designation. It is the abbreviation for SonderKraftZug meaning special purpose vehicle. Oddly enough for the Panther the A does not denote the first in the series but the second. The first was the Panther D. The reason escapes me. The A was followed by the G which was further differentiated by the early and late. Once you begin to build your reference library you'll become more familiar with these things so not to worry. I had absolutely no clue about any of this when I started building.



Sonder Kraftfahrzeug = Sd.Kfz. = Special Motor Vehicle...
GazzaS
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 02:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I built this kit back in 1984... Or something.... Anyway, I thought it was wonderful, and better than anything else I could find at the stores. Looked like a Panther, went together nicely and looked sweet all painted up. I had no idea it would ever be considered a dog. Is the Tamiya Tiger if the same vintage considered a dog, too?

Gary


Yes, the original Tamiya Tiger was way off by today's standards, but it was the best we had, and many amazing models were built using both kits.

Tamiya's Panther Ausf. A turret is simply the wrong shape (far too wide in front). To do an accurate Panther back in the seventies, you mated the Tamiya Panther A hull with the turret from Nichimo's Panther G, with a slab of .060" styrene glued to the front to correct the length, and the "chin" style mantlet backdated to the round type. The middle set of road wheels was molded as one fat wheel on the Tamiya chassis, and you could try to modify the Nichimo wheels, or just live with it. In the eighties, the first Model Kasten (non-workable) styrene tracks became available, which was a huge improvement.

Tamiya's old Tiger had a too-long barrel, a cupola with no vision slits, a symmetrical turret shell (the real one bulges out on one side), and again, the inner set of wheels was depicted as one fat wheel instead of a pair. And both kits featured vinyl tracks with no hinge detail on the inner face (although the motorized boxings featured black rubber tracks that looked more like fan belts than tank tracks--they worked for a while, but over time, the rubber would dry out and crumble, and of course, they couldn't be painted).

Eventually, Tamiya, Gunze Sangyo, Italeri and other makers jumped in with better offerings, but it took a remarkably long time to get these two tanks right.



Gerald,
Thank you for your answer. I've only been back into the hobby for over a year and am currently building planes. I used to consider myself pretty knowledgeable about WWII armor...but I never knew the Tiger turret was asymetricle. I'm gonna guess that all of those Stugs, Shermans, PzKwIV's, and Pattons I got from Monogram back then were all wrong?

Thanks,

Gary
Removed by original poster on 11/08/15 - 15:12:23 (GMT).
Armorsmith
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 08:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I cut this piece of sprue off and this piece of flat part. I can glue it in behind the notch and then fill it with putty. Thoughts?




That will work fine. Sheet plastic can be bought at your LHS or online. Evergreen is a popular brand and comes in many sized and shapes including tubes, rods and strips. Great for scratch building and adding some details. Don't really know what size off hand just kind of eyeball it.

As for your title Panther Sd.kfz. 171 A. Panther is the unofficial name of this particular tank. Sd.Kfz. 171A is the official German Army designation. It is the abbreviation for SonderKraftZug meaning special purpose vehicle. Oddly enough for the Panther the A does not denote the first in the series but the second. The first was the Panther D. The reason escapes me. The A was followed by the G which was further differentiated by the early and late. Once you begin to build your reference library you'll become more familiar with these things so not to worry. I had absolutely no clue about any of this when I started building.



Sonder Kraftfahrzeug = Sd.Kfz. = Special Motor Vehicle...



You are correct. Hands type faster than the brain thinks.
easyco69
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 09:03 PM UTC
I like the huge opening between the lower chassis & upper chassis above the wheels.
Its a good cheap kit to use as canon fodder.
paintMixer
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 10:25 PM UTC
I just purchased this kit the other day, and once completed--I will have three extra large, Panthers--with extra large turrets. The kit would seem to be almost 1/33 scale if not true 1/33 scale. The wheels though, are very close to true 1/35 it would seem. What about the barrel though? Does anyone know if the barrel is true 1/35? These tanks are just about the perfect size to put with the Monogram 1/32 re-issues by the way! I love this kit! dog that it is. I intend to RC one.
Thirian24
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 10:30 PM UTC
George, I would like to RC one also. I may look into that.

Filled the seem at the rear and one side of the slots.





Cheers,
Dustin
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 10:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I built this kit back in 1984... Or something.... Anyway, I thought it was wonderful, and better than anything else I could find at the stores. Looked like a Panther, went together nicely and looked sweet all painted up. I had no idea it would ever be considered a dog. Is the Tamiya Tiger if the same vintage considered a dog, too?

Gary


Yes, the original Tamiya Tiger was way off by today's standards, but it was the best we had, and many amazing models were built using both kits.

Tamiya's Panther Ausf. A turret is simply the wrong shape (far too wide in front). To do an accurate Panther back in the seventies, you mated the Tamiya Panther A hull with the turret from Nichimo's Panther G, with a slab of .060" styrene glued to the front to correct the length, and the "chin" style mantlet backdated to the round type. The middle set of road wheels was molded as one fat wheel on the Tamiya chassis, and you could try to modify the Nichimo wheels, or just live with it. In the eighties, the first Model Kasten (non-workable) styrene tracks became available, which was a huge improvement.

Tamiya's old Tiger had a too-long barrel, a cupola with no vision slits, a symmetrical turret shell (the real one bulges out on one side), and again, the inner set of wheels was depicted as one fat wheel instead of a pair. And both kits featured vinyl tracks with no hinge detail on the inner face (although the motorized boxings featured black rubber tracks that looked more like fan belts than tank tracks--they worked for a while, but over time, the rubber would dry out and crumble, and of course, they couldn't be painted).

Eventually, Tamiya, Gunze Sangyo, Italeri and other makers jumped in with better offerings, but it took a remarkably long time to get these two tanks right.



Gerald,
Thank you for your answer. I've only been back into the hobby for over a year and am currently building planes. I used to consider myself pretty knowledgeable about WWII armor...but I never knew the Tiger turret was asymetricle. I'm gonna guess that all of those Stugs, Shermans, PzKwIV's, and Pattons I got from Monogram back then were all wrong?

Thanks,

Gary


The Monogram molds are now owned by Revell, and some of those kits have been rereleased as nostalgia items, or as kits that are friendly for kids to build. The 1/32nd scale Panzer IV based kits weren't too bad, apart from rather skinny 75 mm gun barrels, and the vinyl tracks with no inner details. The Shermans had tracks with end connectors that didn't connect anything--they were centered on the track blocks instead of being place in between them, to make the stiff vinyl easier to bend. The engine air intakes were also molded solid to the engine deck, so the air couldn't get in. The 1/35th scale half tracks couldn't decide if they were White or international Harvestor versions, and the M3A1 troop carrier version also had folding sides that didn't belong there, so the recent Dragon kits (or even the 1970's Tamiya kits) are much better starting points. The 1/35th scale M48A2 is available right now from Revell USA, but Revell Germany offers a brand-new (2014) mold of the same tank, and it's much better than the 58-year old molds of the original kit (though it has some minor goofs of its own).
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 10:42 PM UTC
I had one of these in my stash, a present from a friend from 20+ years ago! I decided to give it a go, I wanted something for my Italeri Bergepanther to tow, so didn't want something that would show up the Italeri tank! Surprisingly when it's done, with some Zimmerit and the holes underneath the sponsons filled, drivers visor corrected, and dressed up with some more accurate detail bits from the spares box and Tamiyas G seperate tracks and a half decent paint job guess what? it actually looks pretty much like a Panther! So go for it Dustin!
Incidentally, the practice of referring to German tanks as Mark IV, etc is an error carried over from the war. Correctly the "ausfuhrung" letters, A - J or whatever refer to the "marks". It would be more correct to refer to a Panzer IV as a "Type IV" in English. In actual fact the concept that changes came in on the day a new "ausf" appeared is incorrect, in most cases there is a steady progression as the tanks were produced. For example for a long time it was considered that the identifying features of the Panther A over the D, were the later cupola replacing the "dustbin" early Tiger type and the Kugelblend for the operator replacing the "letterbox" flap; but this is not true. There were other less immediately visible changes, and the Kugelblend was phased in during production. Also different contracting factories made changes dependant on parts stock etc. The DML "early" and "late" tags to their kits is misleading.
For modellers interested in such things, the ausf A Panther was the most numerous model encountered in Normandy, although the G was coming into service. The Germans tended to assign tanks as they became available to existing units, and were undiscriminating in recording vehicles of the same type and mark, so it would be possible for units to have say, mixed D and A Panthers, or H and J Panzer IVs in the same company. Newly raised units would tend to be all alike.
Thirian24
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 11:37 PM UTC
Thank you for that info, Steve, and the words of encouragement. It's much appreciated!

Cheers,
Dustin
Modelrob
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Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 02:06 AM UTC
Dustin you are just flying along on your builds keep up the good work. I will stay tuned for this build also.

Robert
Thirian24
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Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 02:16 AM UTC
Thank you Robert,

There are probably some that can be done to these that I'm not doing, that would take more time. I'm just having a blast right now. I appreciate the kind words, sir.


Cheers,
Dustin
Thirian24
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Posted: Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 01:25 AM UTC
Bit of progress on this.




Cheers,
Dustin
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