Operation Barbarossa Group Build
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2003 - 12:36 AM UTC
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Hello one more on the Russians what about the Stalin organ
Katyusha?
According to the Achtung Panzer website, the Soviets had been developing rockets since the 1920s. Here is a list:
-M8, 82mm
-M13, 132mm
-M30, 300mm
-M31, 300mm
The real question regarding our group build would be in which truck you would mount the rockets. The website lists as follow:
-BM-8-36 - ZiS-6 6x6 truck
-BM-8-48 - Studebacker 6x6 truck
-BM-8-24 - T-60 light tank
-BM-13-16 - various trucks and vehicles
-BM-31-12 - ZiS-6 / Studebacker truck
The Zis-6 was in production from 1934-41. The bicture below is of a Zis-6 BM-13 combo:
The Studebacker was a lend-lease form the U.S. and it didn't get shipped to the Soviets until 1942.
Hope this helps you.
Cheers, 
CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
I am impressed ,okay but they did also use the GMC truck which we gave them in droves. Am I correct in this? The Italeri one uses the GMC I think which would be early or late war Goosh this needs more research
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2003 - 04:06 AM UTC
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I may do a superdetailed Kettenkrad unless i get inspired to do something else before then. I think that if a dio is included, it has to all be built under the June 21st deadline.
Andrew,
The build starts in June and ends in September, gives roughly 2 months to build a piece of equipment used from June-December 1941. You can display it as part of a dio, on a base or no base.
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: May 03, 2002
KitMaker: 1,007 posts
Armorama: 703 posts
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2003 - 04:19 AM UTC
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The Italeri one uses the GMC I think which would be early or late war Goosh this needs more research
Jeff, the old Italeri "Katyusha" is a post war Russian chassis (unless they've released another one). It may have been based on the GMC or Studebaker design.
New York, United States
Joined: January 22, 2002
KitMaker: 293 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2003 - 04:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I am impressed ,okay but they did also use the GMC truck which we gave them in droves. Am I correct in this? The Italeri one uses the GMC I think which would be early or late war Goosh this needs more research
Ok, I think the Italeri and Zvezda kits are actually a post War truck, maybe a ZiL-157. However, the Soviets did mount the BM-13 on a GMC 2 1/2 ton truck during the war. The truck itself began production in 1940 and the Lend Lease Act was signed in March 1941, yet the Soviets were only included in the Act in November 1941. I quote from the Encyclopedia:
"The Lend-Lease Act, passed (1941) by the U.S. Congress, gave the President power to sell, transfer, lend, or lease such war materials. The President was to set the terms for aid; repayment was to be “in kind or property, or any other direct or indirect benefit which the President deems satisfactory. Lend-lease was originally intended for China and countries of the British Empire. In Nov., 1941, the USSR was included (...)"
I don't think that any trucks the US sent to the Soviets under the Lend Lease Act would have reached them until 1942, and who knows when they actually mounted the katyusha on the American trucks.
Hope this helps in some way.
Cheers,
CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
Virginia, United States
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 02:06 AM UTC
According to my references, when it comes to Lend-Lease, the only thing that the Soviets had in time for the defense of Moscow in 1941 was a score or two of M3 Lee medium tanks. The other tanks and trucks didn't start arriving until 1942. I know that the rocket launching version of the T-60 chassis isn't good because the T-60 itself was barely completed in time for the defense of Moscow. If I had to make an (un)educated guess, I would say that anything with Katayusha is too late for Barbarossa.
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2003 - 12:09 AM UTC
Thanks To Geoff and Bombshell and Adam I will use the Panzer IV Ausf D version with the add-ons,or maybe the T/34 with the resin turret and upper hull. But hate to waste a good kit for lower hull and wheels.
Washington, United States
Joined: February 07, 2002
KitMaker: 498 posts
Armorama: 193 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2003 - 08:25 AM UTC
Ok, now to really stir the pot............If we're doing a Barbarossa group build, are we including AIRCRAFT????????????? I got a JU-87B Stuka and ME-109E so whaddaya say can I play too? :-)
YOU JUST CAN'T FIX STUPID!!!!
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:32 AM UTC
Uh...Armor Group Build? Mount it on a truck as it is being recovered from a crash landing...?
United States
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 24, 2003 - 12:49 PM UTC
Time for ol' Yoda to ask a few... intelligent (
)....questions... :-)
-Where did Operation Barbarossa take place?
-What was the general geograpic region like?
-What kind of camo, if any, was used on vehicles?
From the list Avukich provided, I see that the few German armor kits I own are not elgible. (that figures...) So I thought I'd just get Tamiya's sdkfz 250 or something...
YodaMan
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2003 - 01:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Time for ol' Yoda to ask a few... intelligent ( )....questions... :-)
-Where did Operation Barbarossa take place?
-What was the general geograpic region like?
-What kind of camo, if any, was used on vehicles?
From the list Avukich provided, I see that the few German armor kits I own are not elgible. (that figures...) So I thought I'd just get Tamiya's sdkfz 250 or something...
YodaMan
Very good questions young man. Operation Barbarossa was the Third Reich's code name for their invasion of the Soviet Union. It began 22 June 1941 and Hitler believed that Russia would fall before the notorious Russian winter began. So by going by the German planned time table, the operation would have run from 22 June to 21 December (when fall ends and winter begins on the calendar) 1941.
Camouflage would have begun as German gray and the normal Soviet armor green (varies like OD green). White wash would have been applied once snow started to fall, mud would have been smeared on early. I am unsure if the Germans started using any type of "standard" camouflage pattern this early.
The terrain would have been the eastern European plains. Very remote farmlands and some wooded areas.
Washington, United States
Joined: February 07, 2002
KitMaker: 498 posts
Armorama: 193 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 01:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Uh...Armor Group Build? Mount it on a truck as it is being recovered from a crash landing...?
OH SURE! Discriminate against us airdales will ya, well fine I ain't playin with you no more!
(At least not until there is a group build that I can use a kit already on hand)
YOU JUST CAN'T FIX STUPID!!!!
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 02:55 PM UTC
Bump 5 pages behind
Sorry
Philippines
Joined: July 22, 2002
KitMaker: 1,538 posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 07:49 PM UTC
I now have the Italeri BT-5 on the pile thanks to GIBeregovoy
- It's not how you begin, but how you finish what you began. -
John Mendoza
Moderator, Filipino Phorum
IPMS Philippines - Bert Anido Chapter
New York, United States
Joined: January 22, 2002
KitMaker: 293 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, February 28, 2003 - 01:22 AM UTC
I got the aftermarket wheels for my KV-1B on the mail yesteday. They are under the label of Trakz and are manufactured by VLS, They are a beauty! They have detail on both sides and just like the real thing the lightening holes are drilled off-center (the Tamiya kit misses that).
Here is a link to a review:
KV-1/KV-2 Wheels My list of aftermarket so far is as follow: Modelkasten tracks; Trakz wheels, CMK barrel.
Can't wait to get this show on the road!
Cheers,
CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 01:29 AM UTC
Kind of strange they drilled them offset !!! Wonder why? Did recieve my T/34 Turret cast yesterday tough decision on which one to build Panzer IV D or T/34
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 02:13 AM UTC
Why not build both? One OOB, and the other modified (since you have an AM turret).
New York, United States
Joined: January 22, 2002
KitMaker: 293 posts
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Posted: Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 04:42 AM UTC
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Kind of strange they drilled them offset !!! Wonder why?
I think the answer is pretty simple. Russian tank designers always understood their job thoroughly. They cut out all refinements and concentrated on the essentials - gun power, armor and cross-country performance. In short, they built some mean, green machines.
Cheers,
CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
United States
Joined: February 15, 2003
KitMaker: 39 posts
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Posted: Monday, March 17, 2003 - 01:55 AM UTC
I thought I'd get into the Big League with the Panzer 1B Command Tank. I built one when I first got back into building and I've wanted an excuse to start one that was in my cabinet.I wonder if any of the Polish TKS tankettes went against the 1B.....Battle of the smurfs!
They came, they saw, they got blowed up.
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 01:47 AM UTC
Ok guys. I´ve read all the posts concerning about what this group build is and I dicided that I would like to be in If it´s virtual. :-)
If it start in 21 June the schedule is ok for me because for that day I expect to have finished the Challenger I for the Cold War Era Contest.
I think I will buid a Panzer I or a T-28 I don´t know it yet.
Two of my models (Panzer II - F & Stug III B) were posted yesterday in the Gallery.
Glad to join this group build.
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few"
Winston Spencer Churchill
New York, United States
Joined: January 22, 2002
KitMaker: 293 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 03:07 PM UTC
Welcome aboard!!
I have a question, did anyone think about a ribbon design for our campaign yet?
Cheers,
CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
Canada
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 10:16 AM UTC
I found some DML German figures that I am going to put examining an ICM T-35 I have sitting around, unbuilt. This would be in the OOB category. I haven't actually built a Russian tank yet, so this should be interesting.
Nic
Pig #5 - Italian military attaché to Der Sonntag Bund
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 21, 2003 - 08:48 AM UTC
I'm in a quandry...
Lots of good ideas here in the thread, but, I haven't an idea of what I'd like to build to participate. Both German and Soviet WW II AFV's are relatively new areas for me - so I like neither better than the other. I guess the only AFV subject I'd probably say strikes me is the StuG.
I ask you guys for suggestions here - help me decide on an entertaining subject to model!
Gunnie
Museum Associate Curator, Military Vehicle Technology Foundation (MVTF), Portola Valley, California
GunTruck Studios
AMPS #1044
IPMS/USA #24551
Virginia, United States
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 21, 2003 - 09:08 AM UTC
You like softskins right Gunnie? You could build the very nice Toko GAZ-AA or GAZ-AAA (OOB or PART has PE and Armo has resin replacement wheels). Or you could do the Italeri ZiS-5 or the Opel. Or since you like StuGs you could get the DML StuG III Ausf. A, StuG III Ausf. B, or StuG III Ausf. C/D.
For purely selfish reasons on my behalf though, I would like to see you do an early T-34, KV, or Soviet light tank (BT, T-26, or T-60) because I would like to see what results you could obtain.
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Friday, March 21, 2003 - 09:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You like softskins right Gunnie? You could build the very nice Toko GAZ-AA or GAZ-AAA (OOB or PART has PE and Armo has resin replacement wheels). Or you could do the Italeri ZiS-5 or the Opel. Or since you like StuGs you could get the DML StuG III Ausf. A, StuG III Ausf. B, or StuG III Ausf. C/D.
For purely selfish reasons on my behalf though, I would like to see you do an early T-34, KV, or Soviet light tank (BT, T-26, or T-60) because I would like to see what results you could obtain.
Hmmm, thanks Adam! Yes, I love softskins and have been building them for years, but the challenge for me would be to get into the AFV's. I don't have any model kits representing the Soviet Light Tanks, but they do sound intriguing. Where/which manufacturer makes them? Quality really isn't an issue - I can do anything that is necessary to fit out a model correctly, PE or not. Just want a cool subject to learn about and add to my collection in the end...
Gunnie
Museum Associate Curator, Military Vehicle Technology Foundation (MVTF), Portola Valley, California
GunTruck Studios
AMPS #1044
IPMS/USA #24551
Virginia, United States
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 21, 2003 - 09:32 AM UTC
You could try your hand at any of the following:
Eastern Express BT-7s (they make 7 different BT-7s all of which fit the parameters of the GB) - AM available = Eduard PE, multiple barrels (Armo is nicest), and Friulmodel tracks
RPM T-60 - very nice; comes with a large fret of PE (stay away from the Zvezda T-60!) - AM available = Elefant 20mm barrel and Friulmodel tracks
Zvezda BT-5 - not great, but the only BT-5 out there - AM available = Eduard, Aber, The Show Modeling, and Airwave PE, Friulmodel track, multiple barrels (Armo is nicest)
Zvezda T-26s - they have the twin-turreted, single-turreted, and flame-thrower (Italeri reboxes these; stay away from all others as they are the old Spojnia 7TP kit dressed up to look like a T-26 and they don't go together very well at all) - AM available = Aber fenders, Eduard PE, Friulmodel & MK tracks, multiple barrels (Armo is nicest)
Let me know if you want any pictures scanned of any of these vehicles or pointers to references.
