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Armor/AFV: Group Builds
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Operation Barbarossa Group Build
GunTruck
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California, United States
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Posted: Friday, March 21, 2003 - 09:49 AM UTC
Okay - I think I can narrow the field to the BT-7 - now to figure out which of the seven variants...

Gunnie
avukich
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Posted: Friday, March 21, 2003 - 09:56 AM UTC
Well Gunnie, it all comes down to which turret you like as the rest of the vehicle was the same. The early ones (model 1935) had the same turret as the BT-5 and mid-model T-26, the late ones had a more conical turret with oval hatches, and the BT-7A had a large turret that housed the KT-28 76.2mm gun (same gun in main turret of T-28 and T-35). Personally, the late model BT-7 is my all-time favorite tank. (hint hint)
GunTruck
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Posted: Friday, March 21, 2003 - 10:14 AM UTC
If I went with a late-model BT-7 - does the Eastern Express model kit include anything to flesh out an interior? Even a token one? Or, do I have to button-it all up?

Are the Fruil tracks a necessity - being that the kit-supplied one are horrendous?

And, lastly - were there a lot of late-model BT-7's around for the Barbarossa Campaign?

Gunnie
avukich
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 02:30 AM UTC
Gunnie--Unfortunately the Eastern Express kits don't come with any interior components. The Friulmodel tracks are not 100% necessary, but they will make the model look significantly better. Yes, there were tons of BTs of all types and models involved in Barbarossa. Most of the pictures of BTs during Barbarossa are of BT-7s and at least 50% of BT-7s in the photos are Model 1937s.
GunTruck
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 07:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gunnie--Unfortunately the Eastern Express kits don't come with any interior components. The Friulmodel tracks are not 100% necessary, but they will make the model look significantly better. Yes, there were tons of BTs of all types and models involved in Barbarossa. Most of the pictures of BTs during Barbarossa are of BT-7s and at least 50% of BT-7s in the photos are Model 1937s.


Okay then - I think I'm going shopping for the BT-7 Model 1937 or 1935 and component parts. Should be able to gather all that up before the start of the Campaign!

Thanks Adam!
Gunnie
avukich
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 07:30 AM UTC
You're quite welcome Gunnie. I can't wait to see your finished product!
StukeSowle
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Washington, United States
Joined: November 08, 2002
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Posted: Monday, March 31, 2003 - 05:14 AM UTC
Alright gang, you got me into this one. I have a CMK Panzerbefehlswagen 35(t) sitting in my closet with the Royal Models update set.

I have modeled the CMK Panzer 35(t) once before OOB. It has pretty nice detail, but the Royal Model set will really spice it up. The only weakness at this point will be the tracks, so I may have to hunt down some Friul tracks.

The vehicle will belong to the 6th Panzer Division which during the campaign sliced through the Baltics towards Leningrad.

Should be fun!
Jeepney
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Philippines
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Posted: Monday, March 31, 2003 - 01:25 PM UTC
Oh my!!! Gunny is building a BT! Looks like I have to practice and make my BT-5 look decent! #:-)

Can't wait!!!
Bombshell
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 06:41 AM UTC
Itching here too Jeepney! Why don't we have a pre-campaign contest to choose the campaign ribbon? Below is the one I pieced together:



What do you all think?

Cheers,

CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
merkava8
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Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 01:24 PM UTC
Looks good. Is there any significance with the colours?
Bombshell
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Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 01:39 PM UTC
Barbarossa was a a German monarch and knight who commanded the Armies of the Holy Roman Empire during the Third Crusade. Medieval estimates are always exaggerated, but the force he commanded was certainly in the millions. He fought primarely against the Byzantine Empire.

Barbarossa also means "redbeard", that is why I made a ribbon that looks somewhat of a red-brown. The gold in the middle and black trimming are just for visual effect and contrast.

Cheers,

CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
airwarrior
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Posted: Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 05:55 AM UTC
kinda late to be asking this but is there a limit on scale?
I don't have any german armor to use in this campaign yet I would like to join.Back to my original question, can I use a 1/72 scale tank? I know where I can get one but don't know if I can enter it.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 03:05 PM UTC
Sure any scale is acceptable, just don't roll up with a vintage 1/1 scale 1941 panzer and expect it to be counted because you drove it across a muddy field to weather it!

Again, make sure that the vehicle was in use during the June 1941-Dec 1941 period and in the Russian theater.
csch
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Posted: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 01:48 PM UTC
In my last post I was not sure of what vehicle IŽll build. Now I got it. I`ll make a Panzer I Ausf A from Italeri with aftermarket tracks of Friulmodel and a Sd.Kfz 222 from Tamiya. IŽll put them together in a base with some ground simulation. In what category will this match, dio ?
Tankleader
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Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 02:10 AM UTC
Hello All,
Just checking in to say hello and that I'm in on this build. Adam makes for a good recruiter. I haven't really decided on what to build but it will definetly have tracks.


Andreas Elesky
avukich
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Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 02:13 AM UTC
It's good to see you here Andy. Welcome aboard!
sphyrna
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Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 02:58 AM UTC
Would the 1/35 Tamiya German Field Kitchen count in the "Other " category ?

after all, the panzer truppen have to eat!


Peter
Sabot
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Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 03:35 AM UTC
Yes, the Tamiya field kitchen is OK.
Tankleader
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Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 04:27 AM UTC
After much deliberation (10 minutes I think) I decided I would build the Panzer Ausf A (SdKfz 101) Now, all I need to do is buy it.

Andreas Elesky
generalzod
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Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 05:18 AM UTC
Well I'm gonna build the StuG 3 c from DML I just wish I could find dry transfer unit markings I have the white crosses from Archer I'm suprised they don't have any StuG markings Also use the Friulmodel tracks
DutchBird
#068
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: April 09, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 05:25 AM UTC
I have found my models...

The Italeri Sd.Kfz 10/5 With 20mm Flak 38.
The PAK 40/L46 75mm gun (together with both Gr8voyager and Penpen).

I have already been looking for reference books and update kits . I have just one more question. Is there any company that makes AM tracks for the Sd.Kfz 10 ? Or where these tracks similar to some of the other halftracks ?

Thank you in advance,

Harm
generalzod
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Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 07:49 AM UTC
Harm,if I'm not mistaken the SdKfz used the same tracks as the SdKfz 250 series I think they were the same chassis As far as tracks try Friulmodel or Model Kasten
DutchBird
#068
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Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 07:56 AM UTC
Thanks a lotfor the help, generalzod ...

Now next step: save some money and order all kits and books.......

Harm
ModlrMike
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 03, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 11:12 AM UTC
I've been able to acquire the Panzerspahwagen P204(f), which is essentially the captured French Panhard 178. I'd like to build the railway version. From my research, there is some evidence that these vehicles were used throughout the German army, and may have been deployed in advance of the railway columns during Barbarossa. Would this vehicle qualify as a suitable subject?
DutchBird
#068
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Posted: Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 01:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Quote:
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Time for ol' Yoda to ask a few... intelligent ( )....questions...

-Where did Operation Barbarossa take place?
-What was the general geograpic region like?
-What kind of camo, if any, was used on vehicles?

From the list Avukich provided, I see that the few German armor kits I own are not elgible. (that figures...) So I thought I'd just get Tamiya's sdkfz 250 or something...

YodaMan

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Very good questions young man. Operation Barbarossa was the Third Reich's code name for their invasion of the Soviet Union. It began 22 June 1941 and Hitler believed that Russia would fall before the notorious Russian winter began. So by going by the German planned time table, the operation would have run from 22 June to 21 December (when fall ends and winter begins on the calendar) 1941.

Camouflage would have begun as German gray and the normal Soviet armor green (varies like OD green). White wash would have been applied once snow started to fall, mud would have been smeared on early. I am unsure if the Germans started using any type of "standard" camouflage pattern this early.

The terrain would have been the eastern European plains. Very remote farmlands and some wooded areas.


Sabot is probably right... The Germans learned to smear on mud pretty quickly, especially in the Southern sector, as their PanzerGrau tended to stand out . Sometimes they put it all over the vehicles, sometimes just in blotches or stripes...

As far as winter camouflage goes, almost everything white seems to do. Just as with the clothing, the Germans were ill prepared, and there simply was not enough camouflage... I have seen a pictures, in the Panzer Colors series, of a Panzer Grau Sd.Kfz. 10/4 with white (table)cloths and bedsheets draped over them, vehicles with snow packed on them as camouflage, vehicles with chalk lines, vehicles with white stripes [both vertical and diagonal, and in short irregular pattern, both narrow and wide], a mud raster pattern (though this one was from a tank in Libya), etc. etc. Many of those covered both in white and mud, seem to have had the vehicle number and (tactical) markings masked over, or roughly painted around them, so you get a fieldgrey square or rectangle or circle with the number or marking on it.

As stated in the book: The look of the camouflage pattern was largely dependent on both the available materials, and the artistic talents of the crew.
 _GOTOTOP