Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 07:57 AM UTC
wow, that is some very clean modelling, a skill I still have to master
"We don't know anything about their race, history, or culture, but one thing's for sure. They stand for everything we stand against."
Zapp Brannigan from the cartoon series "Futurama"
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: December 07, 2007
KitMaker: 2,096 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 08:18 AM UTC
Some very nice work there HARV keep it up..
CUIDICH 'N RIGH
life is a river, it always runs.
Texas, United States
Joined: January 15, 2010
KitMaker: 221 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 08:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
yes it looks quite nice, even though I had a lot of trouble building it. But I won
It will get some paint tomorrow, so let's see how it will turn up.
Yep, It may have been a bit of a struggle, but it looks cool and most of us appreciate the effort having been there one time or another (or repeatedly in my case) and usually shelving the kit for a while. If you have the time, maybe you could do a review or build article since you're so intimate with it and finished it so well.
As for my mess, your input is greatly appreciated. It justifies my thoughts on it which are purely pragmatic. Given the "crude but functional" Soviet mindset I would rule out the folding endramps. I would think that the decking would probably follow the hull shape also, given the probability that no two tanks would be completely level for a flat deck to work. The only issue I haven't quite wrapped my mind around is the Driver's hatch situation. He's got to get out after parking it and I probably would want to eliminate any possibility that he bails out and leaves the hatch or hatches open. What do you think? build around the driver's hatch? Hinge the entire front decking so the first vehicle across knocks them down into place?
Thanks, Charlie
Vice Commander - AmVets Post 182
Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 11:52 PM UTC
a build article, hmm why not?
I was looking at my own T-34 for a while (a scale version I mean
) Driving it into a river would be Houdini act for the driver imho. Gettting out through his own hatch is impossible because the water would rush in. Getting out through the place where the turret was, perhaps possible, but if water came in there he would have the same problem. I do not think they sealed them watertight, there's just too many "holes" in the vehicle such as the air intake and the small hatches on the back and bottom. I would just push them in the river with another tank, and pull them out afterwards. Let them dry and voila
. I read all these stories about T-34's being pulled out of swamps after 60 years and they still get them running after some tinkering.
About the gap to bridge between the vehicles, I would use logs again, lashed together. I have another question, how would they remove and re-mount the turret in the field? annd how would they get it across the river? I have to think about that, perhaps at work tomorrow
"We don't know anything about their race, history, or culture, but one thing's for sure. They stand for everything we stand against."
Zapp Brannigan from the cartoon series "Futurama"
Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
Armorama: 643 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 01:17 AM UTC
"We don't know anything about their race, history, or culture, but one thing's for sure. They stand for everything we stand against."
Zapp Brannigan from the cartoon series "Futurama"
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 01:26 AM UTC
Hmmmm.... While I contemplate starting my M88 build (it's in a long queue of Campaign builds at the moment!) I saw this T34 discussion and just have to say it's a great idea!
If they were truly worn-out and obsolete then are we sure the Soviets bothered to re-mount the turrets? I could see a practical logic to taking these tanks, welding up the holes, adding ramps fore & aft, and then recovering them after use so they can bridge the next river. I think they might have needed to add some kind of beam or angle-iron to the top as a sort of kerb to keep things from slipping off sideways. And if the plate over the turret hole had a simple hatch in it (either a square of steel plating, or even the turret hatch "recycled") the driver could use it to get in & out. Of course all this is mere speculation without me ever seeing any photos, of course...
Keep up the good work!
Tom
"Glue, or Glue Not - there is no Dry-Fit" - Yoda (original script from Return of the Jedi...)
#012
Wyoming, United States
Joined: November 07, 2003
KitMaker: 3,098 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 03:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nice progress on the M32, Randy. Looking forward to see more.
Thank you Jesper.
Quoted Text
wow, that is some very clean modelling, a skill I still have to master
Thank you Mat. I like the look of a freshly painted model. That is why I hate to weather them up!!
Quoted Text
Some very nice work there HARV keep it up..
Thank you Scott.
Thank you guys for your kind words. I really appreciate them and it helps keep me motivated. I was able to get some work done on it yesterday. Mostly painting the road wheels and repairing the three things I broke during the handling.
Thanks again and I should have another in-progress update soon.
Harv
If any white man tries to destroy what is mine, or take what is mine, or take my lands, I will take my gun, get on my horse, and go punish him. — Chief Low Dog - Oglala Sioux Chief
Texas, United States
Joined: January 15, 2010
KitMaker: 221 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 11:18 AM UTC
Harv, Clean work.
I'd have to agree with Tom about the turret. I don't think they were re-mounted. Once they pulled it off (providing it was usable) it might have gone off to an armored train or gunboat or reused on a better hull. Re-mounting it would be too much time and effort given the abundance of T-34's.
I've read about them in 4 or 5 different references but the closest at hand is Squadron/Signals T-34 in Action. Under Support T-34s there's a paragraph devoted to them:
"The bridging tanks based on the T-34 during the war were not of uniform construction and were often modified in the field or at tank repair factories (so there's your local sourcing of material, Mat). The most common types were based on worn-out turretless chassis and were used to provide quick tactical bridging over ditches or shallow rivers. When used for river crossings, they were simply driven into the river, usually two abreast, with additional tanks leapfrogging over the previous ones until the river was breached (two abreast would probably eliminate the need for a bumper. I would think that no one would stand there directing left-hand and right-hand tanks in the middle of the night given the Soviet mindset of the time and the necessity for speed). This often left parts of the bridge underwater (so it probably wouldn't be a major depth). Once conventional bridging could be brought up, the expended bridgers were hauled out of the river for remanufacture. Needless to say, these vehicles were only used for very special operations. The first recorded encounter of these by the Germans came on the Upper Donets river south of Belograd on 3 August 1944, when the 320th Infantry Division was surprised by a totally unexpected attack of a company of T-34s. The T-34 bridge, consisting of several dozen vehicles, was totally underwater and had not been spotted by German scouts."
So, at this point, I'm figuring that the deck is going to follow the contour of the hull up and over and down, put a hatch in like Tom said, leave a log off the front so the guy can see to drive, give the driver a pair of goggles and make sure he can swim. To overcome the drop at the front after the decking ran out they might have mounted a fascine or ramp of sorts with brackets coming up the lower front of the hull and a pile of logs. I may be over-thinking it as usual. These things were quick and dirty so I could just make it a big, flat log bridge with steel framework, which was probably the case. It solves the driver-egress problem too. I'll probably go with that unless someone has a better idea. Besides, like Mat said, prove me wrong...Skippy!
Vice Commander - AmVets Post 182
Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 07:00 AM UTC
Hi Charlie,
this thinking about making the bridging vehicle makes me think of starting a new campaign: "make your vehicle based upon a text in a book without any pictures"
I can't wait to see your progress. On my bench the batlle is not totally over. Whilst mounting the tracks, other parts started to fall of
and I found out I put on one track backwards. So today no pictures of my slightly battle damaged project.. Bring on the CA glue.....and a
"We don't know anything about their race, history, or culture, but one thing's for sure. They stand for everything we stand against."
Zapp Brannigan from the cartoon series "Futurama"
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: December 07, 2007
KitMaker: 2,096 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 07:35 AM UTC
That sounds like good idea lord only knows the creations that would come out of it
CUIDICH 'N RIGH
life is a river, it always runs.
Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
Armorama: 643 posts
Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 07:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That sounds like good idea lord only knows the creations that would come out of it
haha, which reminds me, I still want to build one day the psychopathic train (yes you are reading that correctly) named "Blaine the Mono" from Stephen Kings epic story ""The Dark Tower"
"We don't know anything about their race, history, or culture, but one thing's for sure. They stand for everything we stand against."
Zapp Brannigan from the cartoon series "Futurama"
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 02:38 PM UTC
Here is where I am at.
Texas, United States
Joined: January 15, 2010
KitMaker: 221 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 04:19 PM UTC
Quoted Text
this thinking about making the bridging vehicle makes me think of starting a new campaign: "make your vehicle based upon a text in a book without any pictures"
That sounds like good idea lord only knows the creations that would come out of it
Perfect! We can name it the Official Pull a AFV out of your Buttocks Campaign" Kinda catchy, I'm groovin' on it! Then we'll get Scott to run it.
Back to the Bridge; Where's the glory of the "Peoples' Army in the Great Patriotic War" with a mutated T-34 with logs on top? Can't get the factory workers to part with their rubles for a battalion of those so why take a picture?
Of Course, in my whopping 3 months in an Engineer unit while working for Uncle Sugar, I didn't have any desire to take pictures of trucks, bulldozers, or Bailey Bridge crap either.
Anyway, I'm done. I need to start building. Thanks for the input. It stopped me from over-engineering.
Charlie
Vice Commander - AmVets Post 182
#041
Kobenhavn, Denmark
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 10,069 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:30 PM UTC
Nice looking Bargepanther so far, Darren. Did you use ATAK zimmerit for the hull?
I have made a little more progress on my Borgward, but the tracks are killing me. Each link is made up of two small parts and very fiddling to fix.
More to follow soon.
Campaign'oholic - 252+ campaigns completed
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: December 07, 2007
KitMaker: 2,096 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 01:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
this thinking about making the bridging vehicle makes me think of starting a new campaign: "make your vehicle based upon a text in a book without any pictures"
That sounds like good idea lord only knows the creations that would come out of it
Perfect! We can name it the Official Pull a AFV out of your Buttocks Campaign" Kinda catchy, I'm groovin' on it! Then we'll get Scott to run it.
Back to the Bridge; Where's the glory of the "Peoples' Army in the Great Patriotic War" with a mutated T-34 with logs on top? Can't get the factory workers to part with their rubles for a battalion of those so why take a picture?
Of Course, in my whopping 3 months in an Engineer unit while working for Uncle Sugar, I didn't have any desire to take pictures of trucks, bulldozers, or Bailey Bridge crap either.
Anyway, I'm done. I need to start building. Thanks for the input. It stopped me from over-engineering.
Charlie
You got me thinking now
. Nice work Jesper and Darren keep it up.
CUIDICH 'N RIGH
life is a river, it always runs.
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 03:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nice looking Bargepanther so far, Darren. Did you use ATAK zimmerit for the hull?
Jesper the Zim has been made using Tamiya combs with the zim itself being made of decorators caulk. Thank you for asking. I am doing a Blog
here Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 07:30 AM UTC
Nice work Darren, you sure know how to make an Italeri kit look good. I build their "other" bergetiger (which is not a bergetiger) and it was a lesson in self control
Jesper, those tracks look indeed fiddly, they look like some sdkfz 251 tracks I once built, I feel your pain.
here's a small update on my own project. Did an hour or so on detail painting, still much left to be done
Any ideas for a load on the crane?
"We don't know anything about their race, history, or culture, but one thing's for sure. They stand for everything we stand against."
Zapp Brannigan from the cartoon series "Futurama"
Texas, United States
Joined: January 15, 2010
KitMaker: 221 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 01:04 PM UTC
Hey all,
Darren, Very nice work. What exactly is Decorators' Caulk for us ignorant colonists?
Mat, How about pulling an OT-810 out of the mud? May be too old though. Don't know when the Czechs phased them out.
Scott, Go for it! It'd be fun. I'd even volunteer to help.
Charlie
Vice Commander - AmVets Post 182
#041
Kobenhavn, Denmark
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 10,069 posts
Armorama: 4,677 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 09:05 PM UTC
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I have now managed to get the tracks on my Borgward. Pictures will follow later.
Darren. I have that Tamiya comb set myself, but has not tried it yet. That will be the next project. Your results are very inspiring.
Nice progress, Mat. A rather unique looking conversion that one does not see often. What about hanging an engine pack from the crane.
Campaign'oholic - 252+ campaigns completed
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 05:28 AM UTC
Firstly a thank you to everyone who has commented.
Quoted Text
Hey all,
Darren, Very nice work. What exactly is Decorators' Caulk for us ignorant colonists?
Charlie
Decorators caulk is a product in the UK that is packaged in tubes like bathroom silicone sealant, however it is used by painters and decorators to seal gaps between walls and door frames. The product is handled more or less the same as silicone sealant and sticks like SH-T to a blanket, however as it cures it sets like any of the fillers we as modellers are used to using.
When dry (2 to 3 days to fully cure) it will accept any type of paint without fear of separation occurring. It will also allow you to impart damage by using the back of a knife blade or if you don't cut your finger nails it can be scratched away but does take a bit of force. Now the reason I have used this instead of a standard product is that in the UK it costs £1 a tube which as long as you seal it completely after use contains enough material to put zimmerit on 50 models let alone one. The problem with this product is I have no idea what it is called in the American market.
The only negative of the product is dependant on the user in that it can get very messy if you apply it without care. However there is another plus here that is if you are unhappy with the result you lift the whole lot off just by lifting it at one corner while it still has the properties of silicone sealant. Another plus is that due to the ease of removing portions without damaging the surrounding area there is no need to mask areas off.
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 05:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
here's a small update on my own project. Did an hour or so on detail painting, still much left to be done
Any ideas for a load on the crane?
I don't know what the weight limit of this crane is but how about an engine or better and easier still a concrete road barrier. In the Uk road barriers are made of wire mesh cubes with a liner inside and filled with gravel. So it does not have to be a Jersey barrier.
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: December 07, 2007
KitMaker: 2,096 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 06:03 AM UTC
Very nice mat i agree with Darren, you could hang a power pack or something similar from the crane?
CUIDICH 'N RIGH
life is a river, it always runs.
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: December 07, 2007
KitMaker: 2,096 posts
Armorama: 1,983 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 06:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey all,
Darren, Very nice work. What exactly is Decorators' Caulk for us ignorant colonists?
Mat, How about pulling an OT-810 out of the mud? May be too old though. Don't know when the Czechs phased them out.
Scott, Go for it! It'd be fun. I'd even volunteer to help.
Charlie
Got some ideas going on in my head now charlie
. they just need a bit of refining and finalising now..
CUIDICH 'N RIGH
life is a river, it always runs.
Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
Armorama: 643 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 07:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Very nice mat i agree with Darren, you could hang a power pack or something similar from the crane?
You guys have good ideas. The Ot-810 sounds tempting, and it was used until somewhere in the 80's so it could be possible. The problem with the OT-810 or any other vehicle is that i would have to buy another kit and at the moment I am kind of, uh, broke
I bought a new house which is being build as we speak but I have not sold my appartment yet so I have double expenses. However, I do have some kind of loose engine block somewhere in my stash so I could use that one. I have to find out which kit it came from....
The crane maximum is 19 tons (in reality
), however the scale version is made of resin and that tends to bend over time, even under it's own weight so any heavy load would be a trouble
"We don't know anything about their race, history, or culture, but one thing's for sure. They stand for everything we stand against."
Zapp Brannigan from the cartoon series "Futurama"
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: December 07, 2007
KitMaker: 2,096 posts
Armorama: 1,983 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 07:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Very nice mat i agree with Darren, you could hang a power pack or something similar from the crane?
You guys have good ideas. The Ot-810 sounds tempting, and it was used until somewhere in the 80's so it could be possible. The problem with the OT-810 or any other vehicle is that i would have to buy another kit and at the moment I am kind of, uh, broke I bought a new house which is being build as we speak but I have not sold my appartment yet so I have double expenses. However, I do have some kind of loose engine block somewhere in my stash so I could use that one. I have to find out which kit it came from....
The crane maximum is 19 tons (in reality ), however the scale version is made of resin and that tends to bend over time, even under it's own weight so any heavy load would be a trouble
Could you perhaps drill threw the centre of the crane and insert a metal rod to reinforce it? then just fill the end where you drilled, just an idea?
CUIDICH 'N RIGH
life is a river, it always runs.
