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What if Campaign?
vonHengest
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - 09:43 AM UTC
Jeff: I was thinking the same thing! Those Germans and their crazy projects

Phill: Are you sure you're not talking about Texas?


Hope to get some work down on my Luther starting tonight. The darn thing doesn't come with instructions, none of them seem to. It's not a big deal for the most part, but they usually come with a bag of small parts and no indication for where they all go.
imatanker
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Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - 12:55 PM UTC
VonH...Hopefully tomorrow will be "Panther Day".We will see if we can't put some stuff on that baby.Will post pics.Jeff
panzerbob01
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Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 03:50 PM UTC
Folks:

Hope I'm not too late to join the "what-if" fray!

I have created a "back-story" and have designed an armored personnel carrier / urban assault vehicle based on the venerable Panzer IV (D - don't get too much more venerable than that!) to fill in behind the great "history" provided by Ben de Groot in previous posts this campaign (and many thanks, Ben, for letting me piggy-back on your story!).

Here we GO! I'll provide my back-story below, followed by a concept-picture to show something like what's about to happen, and a ad-dated "kits and supplies" pic showing my ingredients.

The “Back-Story” lurking behind my “what-if” build of the Sd.Kfz. 288 Sturm-TransportPanzer (Assault personnel carrier) IV Ausf D, aka “Der Becker-Igel” or “Becker's Hedgehog”:

To All: I am basing my scenario shamelessly and wholly on that provided by Benjamin de Groot, who has crafted the most delicious and compelling description of a resurgent Germany acting as part of a post-war western-nations coalition caught up in a new war with those evil-empire Reds and friends, in Anno Domini 1947. And let faux-history be told!

In the autumn of 1947 the Coalition of United Free Nations launched an assault on the city of Warsaw and the area surrounding it. Codenamed ˝Outlaw˝, the operation was one of many envisioned to help establish a favorable defensive line for the winter of 1947-48. Tasked with securing the northern outskirts of the town were elements of the former Brigade Feldherrnhalle. Its depleted ranks were filled with a mix of convalescent veterans and mediocrely trained recruits, but it was not enough to bring it up to its full complement, with strength returns indicating that roughly 65% of the division was available. Of these, about 55% was sufficiently armed. The division was found lacking in heavy weapons and artillery support, but received a lot of new AFVs. Most notable among these deliveries were the new Sd.Kfz. 285/2 E10 ausf. B and Sd.Kfz. 284 E25 ausf. A, of which much was expected. In order to supply an adequate amount of infantry for operations, 5. Fallschirmjäger Regiment was organically attached. This more or less thrown together mix of Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe troops formed what would become known as Kampfgruppe Feldherrnhalle. On October 3rd, 1947, Kampfgruppe Feldherrnhalle –deemed to be as unfit for a full-scale assault as it had been at the signing of the 1945 ceasefire – began its assault on the northern districts of the city of Warsaw.

Those who had deemed Kg. Feldherrnhalle to be unfit found, by that they were sadly mostly right. The assault, combining new and mostly untried armor with infantry only meagerly equipped with mobile fire-power and few support vehicles, rapidly bogged-down in the city. Bloody block-by-block fighting ensued where the close quarters strongly favored defenders holed up in buildings and behind rubble barricades, and the poorly-supported E10 and E25 vehicles, intended for defeating tank armor, proved to be vulnerable to enemy infantry and of little value against rubble piles and brick and steel high-rise buildings. Losses of men and vehicles rapidly mounted, and the assault forces were pulled back to re-group and re-equip.

In truth, what had happened was a bit of “jumping the gun”: Coalition commanders had sensed an opportunity and leaped in at the earliest chance. There had been some who had counseled patience, as re-equipping the German forces was a work-in-progress still far from complete. The Germans, based on lots of prior inner-city warfare experience, recognized the value of armored fire-support vehicles to provide cover and support for infantry in urban combat, but development of these things had been mostly put aside in favor of other new vehicle production – in particular the new “standard-panzer” and assault-gun/waffentrager designs. A new infantry support vehicle suddenly gained greater urgency following the events in Warsaw in 1947. But no designs for any heavily-armed “street-brawler” support vehicle had been fully-developed, and no such vehicle was ready for production....

Into this breach stepped Col. Alfred Becker, commander of the fabled “Bau-Kommando-Becker” and the man responsible for the innovative conversion of numerous old French tanks into anti-tank “Marders” and SPG. Becker, an imaginative engineer with a long established reputation for making the most of meager resources to help fill German vehicle needs, stepped up to once again work his peculiar magic to create the needed vehicle from “what was available”.

Becker and his Bau-Kommando rushed east. Upon reaching East Prussia, Becker was given a former tractor-assembly plant, provided access to a variety of older equipment and “less-strategically-valuable” weapons, and directed to “create an effective armored infantry vehicle without delay”. The baseline prescription was for a full-tracked vehicle capable of providing “substantial” fire-support and having a flexible ability to transport assault troop, supplies, and / or smaller crew-served weapons.

Becker was offered “his choice” of several older Panzer IV tanks – mostly old “fahrschule” hulks and damaged tanks pulled out of rear-area repair depots. For weapons, Becker was offered a few dozen Sd.Kfz 222 armored car “hanglafette” turrets, “any number” of MG-42, and a box-car full of the odd-but-powerful Raketenwerfer 43 “puppchen”. To complete the “ingredients”, Becker was allocated a supply of 15mm steel plate and assorted bits and pieces. With the clock ticking, Becker and his “boys” set to work with the arc-welder. Becker's creation was the Sd.Kfz. 288. Formally labeled the “Sturm-TransportPanzer”, Becker's ugly, slab-sided monster, fondly called the "Becker-Igel" or Becker's Hedgehog, by the troops, proved to be a marked success in the second assault on Warsaw, providing substantial close-in fire-support and versatile motility for German assault troops as they moved in to defeat and drive from the city the defending Stalingrad forces.

The concept of "Becker" opportunistically using older Pz III and Pz IV chassis would go logically with both real Becker history and with the anticipated shift towards production of other AFV lines to replace the old Panzer IV "war-horses", had Germany carried on past 1945. I surmise that the old Pz. IV would be pulled back when possible and used as second-line vehicles and relegated to other uses.

But a rebuilding Germany would have to prioritize its limited AFV factories, and many generals still fondly believed in their SdKfz 251 series half-tracks, even though these were under-powered, were typically under-gunned for urban war, and suffered serious cross-barricade limitations, due to having non-driven front wheels. likely the standard-panzer gun-tanks and tank-destroyers would get the nod, and desired, but heretofore less-well-understood, new-fangled "street-brawlers" would get little production support.

Becker would have been "just the guy" to fix this by going his demonstrated "improv" way. He would have been offered old panzers and modest material support in the way of old weapons, repair-depot hulks and thin plate steel. Knowing that his task was to make something which could bring fire-power into a close-in street fight, and being aware that this vehicle would need to cope with both enemy armor and infantry, Becker would be looking for ways to make his brawler both "fierce" and a street survivor. Within the limits of what was available, he had arguably successfully met substantial challenges before with his converted SPG in France, and he would creatively rise to this challenge, too.

So... Big turrets (heavy, no advantage in the city fight), with big AT guns (big, heavy, crew-served, and anyway not available to him) are OUT. He doesn't have any heavy armor (nor means to handle this), and in any case, the Brummbar already exists for those missions. He needs to think "auto weapons" and light anti-armor... He will be offered only "non-strategic " stuff like old SdKfz 222 turrets. Also, if he can use them, panzer-schrecks and panzerfaust and infantry mortars. But "Real" guns... nope. The Wehrmacht needs those elsewhere. One other thing may well have been available; the Racketwerfer 43. This odd little weapon is truly cheap, easy to use, and very effective for close-in AT and bunker-busting purposes... The generals don't much value it, though, as it has a rather limited range and accuracy, so... "Herr Oberst Becker, these can be yours!".

As a design note, Becker will, in this “history”, use spaced-armor to save weight while gaining resistance to the ever-popular shaped-charge anti-tank weapons becoming common by 1947.

Old - but - still-running Panzer IV, 2cm auto cannon, MG, and Racketenwerfers, plus a pile of thin plate, old tank bits, and his trusty arc-welder. What more could Bau-Kommando Becker ask for?

MY build:

This be the Sd.Kfz. 288. The chassis is a CyberHobby Pz.IV D hull and tracks (yes, I did mean Becker would get OLD tanks), the body will be scratch-built from 0.010 and 0.015 styrene sheet, the SdKfz 222 hanglafette turret will be from either an old Tamiya -222 kit, or an old Dragon SdKfz 250/9 recon track kit, and the Raketenwerfer will be provided from a Dragon Raketenwerfer kit. Kits are in my start-up pic.

This build will depict the base vehicle as used in one of its popular “alternative” modes in the second Warsaw assault; with a 2cm Flak 38 (or maybe a 3cm Flak 103/38 Jaboschreck) positioned in the troop/cargo compartment for added “oompf”. I am NOT planning any specific crew or any dio at this time – Hey, I'll consider myself lucky to get this thing done by May!

Herr Becker and I will commence presently!


Bob

The Sd.Kfz. 288 concept picture:



And here are the ingredients... the Pz. hull is partially assembled, wheels ready to paint, track-runs glued and ready to paint. All else- body, turret, raketenwerfer and mount, and the flak-gun, remain to be built. Good luck to me!



Give me a green light, and I'll be buildin'!
WARDUKWNZ
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Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 09:01 PM UTC
Jeremy ... nope .. this weeeee little country is smaller than the state of California and there's one part in the north island where you can get from one side of NZ to the other in under 45 minutes ,,i'm not even going to try to figure out how many times this place would fit into Texas

Jeff ,, com on man ,, we waiting to see how good this is gonna be ,hell i know i am

Bob that is a damn interesting vehicle and i want to see it built ,, JEREMY ALLOW BOB IN PLEASE



Phill
imatanker
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Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 09:50 PM UTC
Phill: In time my good Man in time.I did some weathering on the "F' yesterday but need to do more.Here's the thing,should the tank be driven on or backed on the trialer?It makes a difference how I dirty it up.J.T.
Whiskey_1
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Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 09:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Herr Becker and I will commence presently!



Great continuation of the backstory, Bob. I really, really like the line of thinking in it. Wishing you the best of luck with this beastie. Now, methinks it`s time to grab some arc-welders and cue the A-team score
imatanker
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 03:27 AM UTC
Phill Here ya go
That was then
This is now
A little more bare steel on the tracks I think and some other stuff but it's gaining.J.T.
zontar
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 08:28 AM UTC
Bob: that's a cool idea. I look forward to seeing how it comes out.

Jeff: That looks the part nicely. I vote for forward onto the Wagon, but that is opinion and not based on any technical "best way", if there is one. Pull out the elctric socks and shovel that driveway!

Happy Modelling, -zon
WARDUKWNZ
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 08:36 AM UTC
Jeff ,, dude very nicely done brudda its really looking good ,,not over board but still enough to look good ,,a little more and bingo .. now as for the loading side of things ,, every pic i have seen of a panther on a M26 shows the tank facing forward ,,i would surmise its dew to the 45 tons of weight that the panther had , engine in the rear.turret towards the center and heavy armour up front . balance baby balance .
One thing also is how did the boys find this tank .that will depend on how it was towed onto the trailer .
Also in every pic the turret is facing backwards too , dew to the barrel length.
Why not be different ..have the entire tank backwards on the trailer, that would look pretty cool dude
Oh one thing you will need to do to matey..highlight around the top of the turret more ,,along the edges and on the commanders hatch ,gun manlet,barrel ,remember these are the first things to be hit by dust,the top of the turret could do with more to lol


Phill
imatanker
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 10:34 AM UTC
Gents,thank you for your comments.I will give them some thought and see what I can come up with.
Do you like the SS emblems? Ask me where I got 'em,come on ask me,ask me,ask me, J.T.
WARDUKWNZ
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 01:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gents,thank you for your comments.I will give them some thought and see what I can come up with.
Do you like the SS emblems? Ask me where I got 'em,come on ask me,ask me,ask me, J.T.


Oh ok Jeff i'll bite where did ya get em from then huh ????
imatanker
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 02:17 PM UTC
I looked all over to try to find some white ones,but nobody had any,so I made them from some sticky backed vinyl I had.I thought they came out pretty well.Maybe a bit big,but thats as small as I could make them without having them tear.J.T.
zontar
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 03:22 PM UTC
JT: they look just right to me.

Happy Modelling, -zon
vonHengest
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 04:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Herr Becker and I will commence presently!



Great continuation of the backstory, Bob. I really, really like the line of thinking in it. Wishing you the best of luck with this beastie. Now, methinks it`s time to grab some arc-welders and cue the A-team score



I second that, Welcome to the campaign Bob!

Phill: Weather is very erratic here, but over a greater expanse as you mentioned

Jeff: Nice! And I second the backwards tank position. I also just had an idea, why not create some hand and shoe prints where the GI's touched the Panther disturbing it's blanket of dust?
WARDUKWNZ
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 04:52 PM UTC
Jeff mate ,,its a bingo moment ....there prefect for that tank ..the size fits the turret side super nice and the German foke will know who owns this panther
Well done dude ..nicely done

Jeremy .. dude you want erratic ?? ohh i'll give you erratic ,,Thursday ..raining hard all day,Friday ,,sunny with light nice cooling winds,,Saturday ,today for me , windy as hell and chilly to be in and this is summer here
Tomorrow will probably be hail and snow

Phill

PS ...Welcome Bob .. looking forward to this mate
panzerbob01
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 - 05:16 PM UTC
Jer;

OK! Looks like the build light is ON and gleaming all greenly and stuff for the Herr Oberst B. and I! I'll get right over to the enlistment link and sign up, and warm the arc-welders up!

I'll post some sort of pic on the hull treatment and body plan and expected approach soon! Now I have the green light, it's decisions decisions, and, did I say, decisions?!

Bob
imatanker
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Posted: Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 08:14 AM UTC
Gents,thank you for the suggestions and comments.As soon as I digest them and make some choices I shall reply.J.T....Should be tonight
17741907
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Posted: Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 09:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text




The Sd.Kfz. 288 concept picture:







It's very interesting Bob...Good luck...
vonHengest
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Posted: Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 01:25 PM UTC
Phill: Yep, that sounds like home to me

I need to get crackin on my build, trying to document the whole thing to put together a build feature for those interested.
imatanker
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Posted: Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 11:56 PM UTC
O.K. Let's revisit My Back Story.Here's what I'm thinkin.The room that the Panther was found in was at the very end of the Bunker,facing away with a ramp that led up to ground level.Of course the exit was camo'ed so no one would find it.In order to ensure a quick get a way,the tank would have been backed down this ramp,so it could be driven out,ready to go,Guns blazing,so to speak.
The same crew that put the P-38 engine in the Dragon Wagon(remember 1st Lego Platoon ?:))was called in to see if they could get it started,which they did.It was driven up the ramp and around the site a little to make sure everything worked and then lined up to be driven onto the trailer.It was so big and heavy,it was thought that the winches alone would not handle the load.And that's that.


Phill....I will be doing some more weathering with consideration given to the Turret
Bob...If you go back to page 12 in this thread,you will find my back story.Pay close attention to the end,where the tank and hauler never make it to Caen.I know it's a couple of years earlier than your story, but it's never to soon to start stocking up .With your permission,I think that I have found away for Herr Becker to get his hands on some heavy Armor.
VonH...Hand and foot prints are a great idea.I stole a couple of feet and hands from my Son's toy stash to see if I could use them like a stamp,it didn't work.Can you give me any other suggestions?
Zon...Here's your week end weather update
And there you have it....I may be done with the "F" will post pics later for your approval.J.T.
panzerbob01
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Posted: Sunday, February 26, 2012 - 08:10 AM UTC
Jeff;

Hey! Now THAT (your SUV buried in the snow) would be a real show-stopper build!

Your F has really turned out! That hidden room musta been one helluva biggin - quite like a hanger underground - to house that bad puppy!

I checked your story... hmmm. A lost F out somewhere in the hill country...! Lots of potential for mischief in that! You'd have to check Ben's story and scenario pretty closely to see how one could finagle a link (I think Ben never had Berlin fall, but... one can always twist and spin with "history" in a back-story - seeing as the "real" historians seem to like revision a lot!), but those mental juices are flowing!

Jer: Ben's back-s was/is irresistible! How could I not jump on an excuse to both use up a relict CH Panzer IV D hull otherwise seemingly un-loved and taking up space on the shelf AND burn another couple kits outta the stash (my SWMBO LOVES this part!) AND achieve one of those "merged universes" efforts you had noted back around page 12 or so as being maybe worth something special!?

Now, IF I was the sort who knew how to build a dio, let alone paint a figure, and IF I was actually going to do so... NO, no plans for this, but...

I did do something 2 years back that would go right into the Ben and Bob story:



E-10 Ausf. D recon!

Just sayin', you understand

And I DD make progress on this project last night and today... I'll post a pic or 2 tonite or tomorrow.

For all of you in the LA/MS/TX/AR area... anyone going to the IPMS show (Rivercon?) in Shreveport,LA Sat next (03 MAR). IF so, maybe see you there!

Bob
imatanker
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Posted: Sunday, February 26, 2012 - 11:55 AM UTC
Bob,Great E-10!

This is what I came up with for Herr Becker.Remember this is a "What if" After spending many hours secretly designing many upgrades to Hitlers F and getting no credit for it,when He finds out that it is to be shipped to the U.S. He is very upset (No way are they going to take HIS tank!)He puts together a commando squad,travels to Paris and under the cover of darkness,hi-jacks the whole deal.It is taken to Northern Germany and hidden away for the future.What ever that turns out to be....J.T.
WARDUKWNZ
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Posted: Sunday, February 26, 2012 - 01:54 PM UTC
I guess Herr Becker didn't think tanks would develop much in the future lol ..to think what we play with today would kill any WW2 tank without even trying i guess poor ol Herr Becker would be in tears lol

still nice moves nicking that tank again .. well done ol boy

Phill
panzerbob01
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Posted: Monday, February 27, 2012 - 03:34 AM UTC
Jeff:

Ah, dem gears is grindin'! Not, you understand, that MY Herr Becker was any kind of credit-hog... No Siree! Not one little iota of ego in that ol' boy! So... does this sound like Jeff may be thinking of something here...?

Phil:

Well... As to Jeff's F... For a '45+ tank, that would have been a killer - I think! Probably not much today, but... still wouldn't want to be popped by that gun! What possible Beckerish mods Jeff might be thinking remains to be seen. Becker historically did not ever build anything with much armor protection... more the sort of stuff for deceiving his gun crews than actual "keep those guys OUT of here!". But, even an old engineer-cum-arty officer can learn!

Now-a-days we'd think of ol' missa Becker as being all kinda "green" and "tree-huggerly" and other such conservationist-minded kind-hearted stuff, being as he was a true "re-use" and "recycle" kinda guy! Heck, I bet he was also into saving his tin cans and such... never know when you can re-use that old coffee-can! And hey, way way ahead of his time, being as this was back in 1947, and even Al Gore and GreenPeace and almost all of the hippies and friends-of-earth were nah but gleams in the 'rent's eyes!

At a different level... I am imagining a certain amount of progressive learning could have taken place with Mr. B.: my concept sdkfz 288 is actually not as far removed from "successful relatively-current design" in the urban-warrior / infantry assault vehicle genre as some think... double-skin spaced light armor, lots of fire-power with versatility in ordnance, substantial near-range AT capability, flexible in loading capability for varied missions, etc. No NBC (but then that capability has only seldom actually been much used in real life, has it...?), no GPS (doh), and no cases of plastic "Dasani" water-bottles strapped on top! And probably Becker would not get any of those new-fangled IR nite-vision rigs... those were reserved for "more deserving" types! The "troops" can muddle thru with what they have

All:

Made some progress on this at the Sat night club build - between bites of Pizza, managed to break out the Flak 38/103 kit and start building it. Yeah, I know - seems somewhat the reverse - "build the vehicle first, then the load".. So, hey, come on, guys, how many of you have opened up a tank kit, eye-balled those instructions - classically beginning with assembling hull bottom and road gear, and opted for building the "business-end" first?!

The kit hit the build table...


And after a while (and pizza)... Voila! A gun barrel, frames, sight bits, base-plate! You can't see them, but there are a few tweaks added- tiny wire chains for the various pins, a rod/spring/cover-plate and actuator arm with pins and chains for the trigger-pedal, some cut-outs where Dragon so kindly molded solid lumps for the pinned fittings (a bar-end pivoting on a pin inside a clamp or frame- various locations needed this fix for a little detail), and some scraping and thinning. For those who build these Flak 38 kits - the base-plate is great, but needs a little help on the fittings which the trailer hooks thru to lift this plate up... the pins should be drilled thru (tiny, but visible, pipes - not solid rods) and a flange added for best appearance.

I've elected to use the styrene barrel shield- looks better, rivet-wise, and does not have those ugly mis-etched lines which the PE part does (which would have to be filled). I am planning on using the PE main gun shields... and we'll see if I do!



I'm hoping to get the gun painted this week and take it to a show Sat... And then starts the Beckerish work!

Bob
zontar
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Posted: Monday, February 27, 2012 - 10:33 AM UTC
Bob: The E-10 looks awesome!! Would love to cruise in that.

Jeff: I'm jealous of your weather. This is what I have to put up with on an almost daily basis. But don't cry for me, I'm willing to take the hit!



I've managed to get back to my project a bit, so hopefully I will have some pics later this week.

Happy Modelling, -zon