Hiya Frenchy,
Great pics. The first photo is an excellent study of the engine bay.
In the second photo has that guy got jungle boots on?!
Thanks mate.
Joe.

shined jungle boots at that! What about the guy wearing tennis shoes? I could see him wearing tennis shoes and my old first sargent seeing them on him! Grease trap city
gary

Yeah well, Times change dont they? And not for the best, eh?
In the fire service these days it's all touchy feely! Back when I joined if you were told to jump you bloody jumped. Peoples lives at risk & all that!
Now, you cant say boo to a goose in case it offends somebody! Boo Hoo!
Things just aint as professional now, are they?
All the best to you mate.
Joe.

No rant. I asked a question and pointed out some facts. I thought this was supposed to be a discussion, didn't know you were so sensitive.. If you have the Verlinden book, it would have answered a lot of your questions before you asked them. You might want to take a look at it. I see most of my time has been wasted here.

At that time jungle boots were authorized for wear. The guy with the tennis shoes more than likely has a medical profile.

Tony,
My Verlinden book is packed away at the moment as I'm decorating my work room so it is difficult to have a look at it right now. Once the work is completed I assure you it will be the first book I open.
I just asked a couple of questions & was very kindly answered by some great people who have helped me out in the past. This is, as you say, a discussion & the stupid question is the one that is not asked.
Now, can we kiss & make up?
Please?
No hard feelings, buddy.
Joe.

Okay, here's another one.
If the M108 was in a fixed position on a fire base where would the empty shell casings be discarded? Would they be thrown out the rear hatch or mabye even the side hatch on the turret?
Joe.

as I recall they were tossed out the back door, and then picked up and tossed into a bigger pile. Stateside the guy who picked up the case would hold it up above his head to let the XO know that the bore was clear on gun so and so. Here's something else to remember if your doing anything in the 105 class of gun. Forget about doing brass cases! They were few and far between after 1967, and about the only place you ever saw them was in the states. Most were steel, and there were even some that were fiberglass! There would not be an empty case anywhere close to the gun.
gary

From Flickr :



Frenchy

Hi Frenchy,
Now that's interesting info. And the picture is interesting, too!
So, steel & fibreglass, eh? Any idea who the best manufacturer would be if I wanted post '67 ammo in 1/35th?
In the picture, the shells appear to be literally thrown out the back all over the shop! Would this be normal duing a fire mission & then clean up later? And are those steel casings that can be seen?
Also, to the far left of the gun position there are 3 or 4 stakes standing vertically. Are they for a rocket screen or something?
Joe.

This picture was dated 1969.





Except for maybe one, all the shells are brass and not too far away from the gun.

those are what looks to me like steel cases. You will note that they are tossed to one side of the track. Last thing one needs to do is to trip with a 38lb. 105 round (hard on your big toe)

Those stakes you asked about are aiming stakes. If you look at most all arty pieces you'll find them. Normally big stuff like a 175 gun will have them in the back, but not always. A 155 will have at least four pairs set out. Usually painted red & white with a light mounted on top (one is a red light and the other will be green). Now adays they uses an auto collumator to do this job. Gino might even have a usuer's manual on how the aiming stakes work with the "pentell scope". The aiming stakes are surveyed, and are good for about 1600 mills of azmuth adjustment before having to shift to another set of stakes.
gary

I've seen piles of empty cases that would fill a rail road car, and virtually all were steel! Usually the brass cases were saved out for decorations. Like you said theres at least one steel case in there.
I think the photo is older than 1969. Look at the writing on the back of the hull. It looks to be from Task Force Oregon (probably wrong here but I'm guessing it is by the numbers). If it'd been south of there it would have been a piece from a basic infantry division arty. Like 25th or 1st infantry Division (now it could be that one). But if you look at the horizon you can tell it's at a higher elevation. But on the otherhand the dirt isn't all that red, so I'd say it was close to the coastline. Way down south there was a lot of dark brown earth and even black. My guess is that it's a unit that's part of the 4th Infantry Div somewhere between Pleiku and Du Pho (there was at least one M108 battery in I-Corps).
Lastly take note that the tracks are setting atop a solid wood platform. This is done for repetability and also less problems with the tracks embeding themselve in the ground cause displacement in the fire missions (these guys will not be doing a hull shif by the way the revetment is set up. Kinda fancey). I hunt those numbers up as I've seen the 3/4th someplace. Looks like the H&I gun
gary

According to the references I've found, the M108 above and the one in the b&w picture I've posted belong to the 3d Howitzer Battalion, 6th Field Artillery "Centaurs", I Field Force, Vietnam (IFFV) :
Arrived in Vietnam June 17, 1966 ; stationed at Pleiku ; initially assigned to IFFV serving in the Central Highlands; then assigned to the 52nd Artillery Group ; departed for CONUS in 1970.

HTH

Frenchy

It's from 3/6FA attached to 4ID. The picture came from a vet who said he was in Pleiku in 1969. I'm not saying it's his photo, more than likely a DOD picture, but he said it was from his unit. Here is another picture he sent me.



I'm just going by what the guy told me.

Thanks gents for the info & photos. They're great!
Okay, what would the 105mm crates look like? Would they be top opening or end opening?
And would the ammo be unloaded from the crates & stored in a dump or would the rounds be used straight from the box?
Also, did the crew build their quarters (bunkers) next to the gun & what materials did they use?
Joe.

They're top opening, and have roughly the same size and shape as 105 tank ammo boxes. The rounds come two to a box, in cardboard tubes. they are stored in the revetments, which are quite thick overhead. They must be stored on dunnage whether in the boxes or tubes, never on the ground. A pallet generally suffices for this.

Except for maybe one? I'd be curious how you came to that conclusion from a photo, Tony. All ammo is fired from the same lot, they are never mixed. Powder consistency is vital to maintaining a proper sheaf.
The steel shells I fired had an anodized appearance anyway, and were quite old. They do not actually look like they're made of steel.
Forgot to add earlier that one round (representative of where most of the ready rounds are) will be opened, and a thermometer will be inserted into one of the bags. As I said, powder consistency is vital, and changes in temp are calculated along with other factors such as ambient temp, barometric pressure, humidity...
I got that from experience as a 13B by the way, not some dude who emailed it to me.

@Joe
I think I'd be more receptive to advice from Trickymissfit and Mike, than someone who relies on hearsay. Especially if that someone is a guy who has nothing better to do than stay up until almost midnight just to try to prove one of these vets wrong. But that's me.

The 105mm ammo boxes look like this:







Verlinden makes a pretty good 105mm ammo set.

Rob & Gino,
The info & photos are great. This really helps a great deal.
Crossedrifles-thanks for standing in my corner, my friend!
God bless you!
Joe.

Get a life troll.

I've had an idea for years, and since I'll never get around to it, you are welcome to it:

Most arty dios obviously feature the piece, usually a few ammo handlers, a number one man, a gunner, an AG, and assorted ammo components scattered around the gun. Other than that, one is pretty much like the others.
Now we know Joes have a way of making the routine a little more interesting, in combat or in training. A 105 crew is no different. There's always a little side action going on.
Number one man drops the casing out of the breech -- (yes, it is usually barehanded out of the breech right after firing) he owes the chief a beer.
Number one flips the casing out the back and it lands on end -- the chief owes him a beer. Naturally, someone must keep a tally. What I always wanted to do was show the number one man in the act of tossing the casing (or watching it as it lands) and have some sort of blackboard near the rear of the piece with "standers" written at the top left, with tally marks underneath, and at the top right "drops" also with tallies underneath. Then under that, "beers owed" with a few names, each with tallies next to their names. This would be in keeping with the finest tradition of the field artillery, and even St. Barbara would be proud.
By the way, the trick is not to try and toss the casing so that it lands on end, but to toss it in such a way that is lands opening first, angled slightly away from you, and then bounces up on its end. The primer tube inside the base gives it a surprising amount of weight, and getting three or four in a row to stand is not uncommon.






Why must everything be a point of contention with some people? Gary said they wouldn't be anywhere close to the gun, and they're not. They're plenty far enough away to prevent them from hindering the crew, which is always a good thing when you're carrying primed ammo around.

As for how aiming stakes work:
Make a knife edge with your hand and place it vertically against your nose. Now sight along your hand at two other nearby objects in your house or yard, all in a line. Those two objects represent the stakes, your hand and eyes are the gunsight. Now rotate your head. That represents a deflection right or left. Note that the your hand is no longer in line with the two objects. The far object appears to be between the near object and your hand. This is where the phrase "Hey diddle diddle far pole in the middle" originates. When you set a deflection on the Pantel (panoramic telescope) you turn the deflection wheel until you have the same sight picture, with the far pole appearing exactly centered between the near pole and the stadia lines. You'll need a large dio to do it by the book -- 50 and 100 meters, but terrain may dictate (and the book allows for) much shorter distance. The important thing is that the far pole is twice the distance as the near pole. When you paint them, make sure the alternating red and white are 10 cm in width. Some people have called these "ranging poles" and been called on it. They are not incorrect however, because way back in the day, the known length of the pole was actually used to calculate the range to far registration points. It's not even taught at Ft. Sill any more, as its usefulness has long been phased out.
Hope this helps, and doesn't further confuse you.

Rob,
You are the man, my friend.
Thanks for the intel on the aiming stakes. I think I have the idea...mabye.
As to your idea regarding the dio, I'm going to do the blackboard scores just for you!
Give me a while, though, as I'm decorating my workstation & cant do any modelling for a bit.
I'll keep you posted on progress.
All the very best to you.
Joe.

Green jungle boots were authorized up til just a few years ago; off the top of my head, maybe 2008? At the same time they killed the BDUs.

As for the guy in the sneakers, I had a battalion commander who wore tennis shoes in the tank and put on his wet weather boots when he got off. Real strange dude, to him, you did not wear your muddy boots inside the tank.