Engine for M109 & M108 too?
United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 - 08:52 PM UTC
Hi fellas,
I've managed to aquire both the Italeri M108 & M109.
I have a Real Model M109 engine deck on the way to me as this is written but I also have the CMK M109 resin engine deck which would be a shame to waste.
Now, can I use the CMK M109 engine deck in the M108 as the lower hulls were the same,weren't they?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Joe.
"Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right...unless you are going all the way".
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Tamiya SAS Green Hornet Land Rover
Rhone, France
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Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 - 09:42 PM UTC
Hi Joe
According to my references, both are fitted with a General Motors 8V71T, 8 cylinder, 2 cycle, vee, supercharged diesel engine
HTH
Frenchy
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 - 11:06 PM UTC
Hiya Frenchy,
How are you? Long time no see!
As always, you are there to help.
So, I should be able to use the CMK engine.
Am I correct in saying that the only difference between the M108 & M109 is the gun?
All the very best to you.
Joe.
"Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right...unless you are going all the way".
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Tamiya SAS Green Hornet Land Rover
Rhone, France
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 12:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Am I correct in saying that the only difference between the M108 & M109 is the gun?
I guess you're correct. Apart from the main gun and the absense of recoil spades, I believe most of the other differences should be related to the interior layout. But I'll leave that to our resident artillery experts
You'll find some walkaround pics of a Brazilian M108 (including a few interior views) here :
http://www.ipmscuritiba.com.br/site/2009/09/m-108-exercito-brasileiro/HTH
Frenchy
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
Florida, United States
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 02:31 AM UTC
Yes, the basic chassis on the M108 and M109 are the same. They also used the same engine. So yes, you can use the M109 engine in an M108.
Field Artillery --- The KING of BATTLE!!!
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Showcase
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 04:10 AM UTC
There are a few more differences you'll need to make your M108 correct. For one thing, there IS a big difference on the hull other than the lack of spades. There are two rear access doors on the 108 instead of one. You'll need to split the large door down the middle, and add hinges on the left side. Also, copy the door latch and add one for the left side as well.
(That said, I did see an oddity at Ft. Sill about twelve years ago -- an A2 with split doors.)
On the roof, you'll also need to mill off the long rectangular box next to the loader's hatch. That's the replenisher housing for the 109 series, not seen on the 108's.
While you're at it, you might as well remove the other boxlike structure on the roof. It should actually be the spare barrel bag for the fi'ty, which is better off being scratch built.
A strong man stands up for himself; A stronger man stands up for others.
Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accusations.
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Rhone, France
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 04:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
For one thing, there IS a big difference on the hull other than the lack of spades. There are two rear access doors on the 108 instead of one.
OOOPS ....Should have paid more attention to the walkaround pics I was talking about...
Frenchy
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 05:15 AM UTC
Cheers fellas,
Thanks for your responses. Thanks Frenchy, for the great link. Most helpful.
I'm not sure if I've made myself clear but I do have both kits here. I've got the Italeri M109 (#246) & I've also got the Italeri M108. They're both upstairs at the moment & my baby girl is asleep so I cant wake her to get them to look at closely. Hopefully, later this evening!
Is the rear door modelled wrong on the Italeri M108 then, or are we getting our wires crossed here?
Also, is there a good metal barrel after-market product (i.e: Barrel Depot); photo-etch & mabye even a resin interior out there for the M108?
I already have the Skybow/AFV Club tracks.
Any help here would also be appreciated.
Thanks guys.
Joe.
"Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right...unless you are going all the way".
On the bench:
Tamiya SAS Green Hornet Land Rover
Removed by original poster on 03/13/10 - 17:49:54 (GMT).
United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 05:50 AM UTC
As always Frenchy, a saviour!
What about after-market products for the M108?
Do you know of any?
They seem to be a little thin on the ground. Or I haven't got my searching head on at the moment!
Thanks mate.
Joe.
"Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right...unless you are going all the way".
On the bench:
Tamiya SAS Green Hornet Land Rover
Rhone, France
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 05:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Is the rear door modelled wrong on the Italeri M108 then, or are we getting our wires crossed here?
I'm afraid some minor surgery will be required Joe ...Here's the M108 kit sprue showing the M109-style door on the left, and the unnecessary recoil spades. This sprue is most probably common to both kits...
Frenchy
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
Joined: October 03, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 06:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi fellas,
I've managed to aquire both the Italeri M108 & M109.
I have a Real Model M109 engine deck on the way to me as this is written but I also have the CMK M109 resin engine deck which would be a shame to waste.
Now, can I use the CMK M109 engine deck in the M108 as the lower hulls were the same,weren't they?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Joe.
I learned to drive on an M108! I can still hear the instructer pointing out this one large dead tree out in the middle of a field that must have been a square half kilometer. He said "don't run into that tree!" And of course I did! We also shot rounds out of them, but everything other than that damned tree are really vague. We shot maybe a dozen rounds thru them, and moved right away to M109's; where we shot a hundred fifty rounds. Will soon be 43 years ago!
I'd suggest you go over to the armor board at FSM. There's at least two guys on there that crewed on M108's, and could probably answer about any question you'd have for them. I just can't remember much about them as we were only around them for about three days. I was destained for M110's and M107's right from the start of track school
gary
Joined: October 03, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 06:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes, the basic chassis on the M108 and M109 are the same. They also used the same engine. So yes, you can use the M109 engine in an M108.
it's actually the same powerpac for the M107, M110, M108, M109, and the M578 as well as a slightly modded version that was used in Russian T54's and T55's by the Isrealies. I have a really nice photo of the powerpac as they are starting to install it in an M109 hull at the Cadillac plant in Cleveland Ohio (contrary to what the guys in the books and magazines like to say, Allison has never ever built a tank of anykind but with two exceptions)
gary
United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 09:06 AM UTC
Hiya Gary,
Thanks for your reply. I'd love to see that photo of the powerpac! Any chance of beaming it over to me, buddy?
Oh, & mind that tree! Doh!
Ha Ha Ha!!!!
"Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right...unless you are going all the way".
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Tamiya SAS Green Hornet Land Rover
United States
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 12:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'd suggest you go over to the armor board at FSM. There's at least two guys on there that crewed on M108's, and could probably answer about any question you'd have for them.
Or you could take a look at this walkaround.
http://www.primeportal.net/artillery/cesar_ferreira/m108/Joined: October 03, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 12:33 PM UTC
P.M. later this weekend, and I'll run you a good quality scan from an Allison photograph taken at the tank plant in Cleveland Ohio.
gary
New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 03:07 PM UTC
Besides what has been said so far, the interior of the M108 was different. Obviously the 105mm breech but also the racks were set up for 105mm rounds. Also I think the sight set up was also different (it was looong ago).
I don't know of anyone who make an M108 interior. I also have not seen any good pics of the interior. Best would be to find the TM online.
Rounds Complete!!
The Moral High Ground..a Great Place to Emplace Artillery
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 03:17 PM UTC
Verlinden's Warmachines #1 M108-M109-M109A1/A2 has very good pictures of the interior of the M108.
United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 06:26 PM UTC
Thanks fellas for your help here.
You know, I figured the aftermarket product list would be pretty sparce. It usually is on the subject of Vietnam. The longest war of the 20th century where many of todays equipment & vehicles started there life & are still in use & you have to look long & hard for models to build!
It just doesn't make sense!
Looking forward to hearing from you guys again soon.
Joe.
"Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right...unless you are going all the way".
On the bench:
Tamiya SAS Green Hornet Land Rover
United States
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 07:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
You know, I figured the aftermarket product list would be pretty sparce. It usually is on the subject of Vietnam.
Well what is it you want? No, it's not a Tiger 1 with a pile of aftermarket sets out there, but it's no worse than most vehicles kitted. AFV Club makes a really good track set for the M108/109. There are a few different PE sets for the M109, which most of it can be used on the M108. Most of the interior set for the hull by Trakz can be used. A good portion of the turret interior set by Trakz can be used. If you are looking for M108 specific stuff out there, no it's not made. It was a fairly rare vehicle. Invest some money in reference and you'll see what you need. If there is 1 book you should have on the M108 it's the one I pointed out above. As to other vehicles used in Vietnam, they are pretty well covered.
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 11:07 PM UTC
Steady on old boy!
I have taken into account everything you & everybody else has said in this thread.
I have the replacement tracks (as I have previously mentioned) & I have the trakz interior & turret sets (but these are for my M109) & I also have the Verlinden book on the M108/M109 (although I haven't read through it yet).
All I'm saying is that the subject of the Vietnam war is less catered for when it comes to AFV modelling.
I hope this goes some way to answering your rant towards me.
God bless you sir.
Joe.
"Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right...unless you are going all the way".
On the bench:
Tamiya SAS Green Hornet Land Rover
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 11:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'd love to see that photo of the powerpac!
Would some TM drawings do the job ? :
I've got a few other 8V71T engine pics but they show the 7083-7395 variant that has the turbocharger mounted on the rear of the engine block...
HTH
Frenchy
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 01:29 AM UTC
Hiya Frenchy,
Thanks mate.
Is there anything you cant help with?!
These engine pics are excellent!
What colour is the engine & engine bay? And for that matter the interior of the vehicle?
It looks like it's painted white in the primeportal link on this thread. Would that have been the same for vehicles in the field?
Joe.
"Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right...unless you are going all the way".
On the bench:
Tamiya SAS Green Hornet Land Rover
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 02:19 AM UTC
I guess white would be OK for the turret interior and the engine bay. Just take a look at pages #8 and #9 of Verlinden's M108/M109 book for some M108 engine bay pics...
Frenchy
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 04:20 AM UTC
I've just came across 2 pics showing US M109s under maintenance in Germany ca. 1990 :
HTH
Frenchy
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
