Gary,
I have to agree with you about the MG42.
It is arguably the best machine gun ever made. I think all NATO armies should have adopted it & for the life of me I cant think why we didn't!
Joe.

I read an extensive study on the evolution of the M60 and a couple other U.S. machine guns compaired to the MG34 and MG42. It went all the way back to around 1935 or 36 and really took it all into two prospectives (designers & users)

Sometime around 1937 there was a round table discusion between a good lot of the world's designers, and it ended in a major dispute! The two groups presenting their arguments were the Browning bunch and the Mauser bunch. Browning was kinda hung up on the 30-06 case that was 63.3mm in length with a few other design twitches that were just plain laughed at. The Mauser group showed somekind of an equation that simply said that at the firing rate that most wanted out of a machine gun (500 rpm) that the 57mm case length was about the max you could reliably get by with. Browning was pretty much hung up on pushing the loaded round in the chamber as hard and fast as he could get it in there. The Germans simply said that idea was fool hardy, and the real solution to the problem was not loading the round, but getting the spent case out of the barrel and thru the reciever. Mauser even went so far as to say that the best current cases to even consider were the 55mm and the 47.5mm 300 Savage cases. Browning's group left in a huff, and I guess each side kept their own direction. We all know that the MG34 evolved into the MG42 as well as one other somewhat obscure machine gun. Through out WWII the MG 42 shot rings around anything the Allies could come up with, and to add insult to injury it was much more portable with a typical light infantry group.

After the war was over with and right in the middle of the Korean War the Army and the Pentagon Fact Finding Board decided they needed something better. There were three or four proposals over here, along with one extremely inflamatory idea. Just tool up the MG 42! The left over WWII Generals rejected it in every way. Sometime around 1952 they decided to order a new machine gun. While this was going on the Army was doing some work with a new round (7.62 x 51mm). Then along comes the design for the M14 rifle, and then somebody says "hey lets use it in that new machine gun!" The Generals would not have it again, but this time they were going to get the new round anyway. Thus we start to design what would be known as the M60. Seems like there were three or four designs. The Pentagon Fact Finding Board once again trys to scrap the design as the MG42 out shoots it. But it's not gonna happen. They tried to make a switch as late as 1956! Basicly it was politics and the "I don't like Germans" crowd.

There were some interesting tests run compairing the 7.62 NATO and the .300 Savage in an M60 machine gun. The .300 out shot the .308 everytime when using standard 150 grain mil spec bullets (the .308 has about 100 yards of range on the .300). But the .308 out shot the .300 everytime with 170 grain bullets (which they never shot out of a machine gun)
gary

Oh boy, politics! You know, that's a really dirty word over here at the moment.
Politicians & the ruling elite make me sick as hell!
You know, the right equipment is out there; it's always been out there, but they wont procure it for one reason or another & people die. Yet they're still in power telling everybody else what to do & what to think.
It doesn't matter if you're right wing or left wing. They're all the same the world over & there is nothing anybody can do about it.

By the end of July I'll have three family members in the combat zone (Afghanistan) at the sametime. One is a newbie, one is an an ROTC shake & bake, and the other (the old man) in on his third tour there with six tours total in the Middel East.. He once told me that the M60 was still a sought after weapon just because it was a 30 caliber weapon. When he did his first tour (Desert Storm) he asked me about the M60, and how well it worked in real combat. I sat him down (along with four others in his squad) and told them the do's and don'ts in plain jane English. Others thought they were nuts when they showed up with a bag containing springs and firing pins! They had the orange juice cans just like I showed them. Replaced all the tracer rounds and put the asbestos gloves on the outside of the back packs (spray painted to match). Guess what? They never saw a problem; while some others did. I also told them about the transmission grease treatment on 50 caliber machine guns, and the correct way to head space them (the book will get you killed)
gary

Gary,
Wish your people the best of luck, my friend!
What was the transmission grease treatment & what is head spacing?
Joe.

When you change the barrel on a Browning fifty you have to head space it for the cartridge. The book has you do it one way, and it usually works, but if it dosn't? What was found, was that if the gun started shooting nice and fast it was doomed after about a belt. But if the gun started out shooting a little slow when it was cold it would not fail. (keep in mind I am not a real fan of John Browning anything except for the 1911a1). Many units kept a can of heavy oil or transmission oil in a large can like tomato juice came in. It was bent for a pour spout, and after about two belts ou poured the oil on the barrel to cool it. You would do this everytime you felt the barrel was heating up to the yield point. The oil often burst into flames for an instant. Not everybody did this, but it was often seen in use by line units. Nobody ever wants to change a barrel when the neighbors drop by for tea.
gary

P.S. I'm not a very happy person about Nolan going to the combat zone about one month past his 19th birthday. I wish they'd have waited six more months just for the maturity factor alone. I'm not worried about his Dad, as he knows the ropes by now very well. The grand daughter's husband is an ROTC shake & bake, and he asked for every card he's delt! At least he's 24 years old, but would hate to be somebody serving under him. The two older ones are there to get their tickets punched, but Nolan is just caught up in the hoopala. I'm certain his Daddy has sat him down for some serious heart to heart talks. I should have had a few deep conversations with him a lot sooner. A 19 year old is not ready for an 11B10 slot no matter how smart he is
glt

Okay, I understand. How big was the oil can?
There are some oil cans available as after-market parts. I think Legend Productions do some. I just want to check if I've got the right ones.
Thanks mate.
Joe.

about 150mm in diameter, and maybe 250mm long. Bend it so there is a funnel like pour spout on one side. I'm sure there were all kinds of shapes and sizes used
gary

Plus Models has released a Vietnam set that includes some larger oil cans... (set #127)



Frenchy

Hi Frenchy,
Yeah, this is the one I was talking about & not Legend Productions. Sorry, my mistake.
Are these the oil cans Gary was talking about?
Gary, are the cans you were talking about in the picture above?
Joe.

Joe,
you could probably make do with one of the clear bottles if you wanted to. The can I'm refering to is the same size that you buy tomato juice in at the grocery store. I think it's about one litre (maybe two). They were never issued as an oil can, but you just scrounged them up at the mess hall. Ask your wife, as she'll know right away!
It was also rather common for the machine gunner to have his loader armed with an M79. After a couple of belts the heat waves make it hard to find targets, so the M79 is used for him to spot targets. Of course this is only good for about 300 meters.
gary

Okay Gary, I get the picture...I think.
I do the cooking, ergo the shopping in my house. You see, my wife is a terrible cook & I like good food too much!
So the loader has an M79. Would this be only on the .50cal or would the M60 crew be so equipped aswell?
Joe.

usually somebody will show up to help the guy with the machine gun. Most of the time there'd be a 79 close by with a couple dozen HE rounds. We learned that trick from a platoon we OP'd with out of the 101st down near
Quang Ngai right after TET (they have absolutly no sense of humor down there by the way). The guy shooting targets may even be a hundred feet away, but the gunner knows what's going on. This especially important when you work the night shift. Guard bunkers always had one right beside the machine gun just for the same reason. But even then you had to have a guy that could hit what he was aiming at! I've also heard of crews using M16's loaded with a magazine full of tracer rounds for the same reason, but that's giving Charlie a welcoming mat.
gary

So, if I placed an M60 on a tripod in this howitzer position then there would be an M79 close by, right?
Joe.

good chance. Just be sure to cover it up with a towl due to the dust and heat. Still we very rarely ever place a machinegun within eyesight. One dosn't want prying eyes to know what you got and where it is.
gary

So everything is covered up?
I mean the folks next door know where the M109 is so they would surely know that it's covered with a machinegun. Why cover something up if they already know it's there?
Joe.

if you've ever seen the dust that a howitzer kicks up you know why! And things get so hot that they'll leave blisters on your pinkies in the summer months. The 109's with the machine gun mounted ontop is another story. The ones in photos are the only ones I've ever seen with a machinegun. And even then we'd cover it up to keep it clean. The red dust over there is like the planet Mars! Gets into everything.

Go back and look at the photos I sent you. Notice you never see a small arm anywhere? Believe me they're close by, but also outta the way. From where I was standing there was an M60 ten feet to my right side. There were two ammo cans on the bunker roof, as that was where we felt would be the best spot to shoot from. But you won't see them. Once the M60 goes thru about fifty rounds he's suddenly the center of attraction, so you never tip you hand before the last card is delt. Also we never shot from atop the ammo bunker or powder bunker.
gary

Yeah...I completely understand what you mean, Gary.
Joe.