You know, Gary, life sucks sometimes, mate. It seems there is no justice in this world.
Unfortunately, this kind of thing is the way of the world sometimes, I'm afraid.
What I dont understand, & I've read this in a number of books, was the way some senior officers would get top medals for flying over the combat zone in a helicopter while the grunts were taking the lead & bleeding on the ground! Now, how fair is that?
I know it's a bummer but [auto-censored] happens buddy.
I also think that you shouldn't beat yourself up over it, mate. You were there too when the [auto-censored] was coming down so I think you deserve that Silver Star!
But God bless you for giving it to Toms Mum. There'll be a special place in heaven for you, that's for sure!
All of you are heroes whether you made it out of that place or not.
Joe.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Engine for M109 & M108 too?
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 12:06 PM UTC
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 05:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You know, Gary, life sucks sometimes, mate. It seems there is no justice in this world.
Unfortunately, this kind of thing is the way of the world sometimes, I'm afraid.
What I dont understand, & I've read this in a number of books, was the way some senior officers would get top medals for flying over the combat zone in a helicopter while the grunts were taking the lead & bleeding on the ground! Now, how fair is that?
I know it's a bummer but [auto-censored] happens buddy.
I also think that you shouldn't beat yourself up over it, mate. You were there too when the [auto-censored] was coming down so I think you deserve that Silver Star!
But God bless you for giving it to Toms Mum. There'll be a special place in heaven for you, that's for sure!
All of you are heroes whether you made it out of that place or not.
Joe.
Joe,
last night I recieved an email from a fellow I know out of the 196th Infantry. We never knew each other in country, but I'm a betting man we bumped into each other several times. His company was shot to pieces many times over (I remember several of those events). We kinda ran accross each other in a Hiep Duc Ridge discussion ( more or less a cussing about the place). The Hiep Duc Ridge Line was nothing but an easy place to be ran thru a shredder. If you walked off that ridge you were good, and tough as nails. That's the best way I can say it and keep it clean. There were no less than five guys up there that won the CMH!! That's five CMH's out of a total of 13 awarded in the Americal Division alone (that's all of I-Corps). If one really knew there could have been at least another two or three on that seven mile long piece of ground that was maybe 450 yards wide at the most.
gary
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 06:52 AM UTC
Hi Gary,
Was I Corps the place where the hardest fighting took place?
Wasn't that a marine AO until Westmoreland sent Abrams in there to take over as MACV North? I think that's the right term. And the marines really resented that, didn't they?
Joe.
Was I Corps the place where the hardest fighting took place?
Wasn't that a marine AO until Westmoreland sent Abrams in there to take over as MACV North? I think that's the right term. And the marines really resented that, didn't they?
Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 05:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Gary,
Was I Corps the place where the hardest fighting took place?
Wasn't that a marine AO until Westmoreland sent Abrams in there to take over as MACV North? I think that's the right term. And the marines really resented that, didn't they?
Joe.
The Marines were up there first, and after about 1966 they kind of consolodated their AO. Right after LBJ sent the 1st AirCav over there they started making preps to send two brigades of the 101st and some other units as well (that where my unit comes in). By 1967 everything north of Chu Lai was pretty much involved with Marines, and they were spread pretty thin. So in comes several Army brigades (196th, 198th, and somewhere in that time frame we start to see armored CAV units show up). There was a Tet Offensive in 1967 (bet none of you all knew that), and that was the hand writing on the wall. After that and on towards the summer of 1967 the Marines pretty much had everything north of Da Nang and a few selected places south of there. I remember seeing an occassional Marine patrol in very early 1968 around Chu Lai (maybe one a week east of Highway One). The Army units pretty much took over everything south of Chu Lai and west of Highway One about that time. Was somewhat disorganized, and patrols often bumped into other patrols. The problem was that I-Corps was run my an Admiral who sat in a boat off shore. Story went that Grant Sharp had never set foot on Vietnamese soil. Anyway he was supposed to answer to Westmoreland, but he made it a practice to back door in to Pearl Harbor (I'd suggest you goto the library and order the book "Valley Of Decision" as it will really explain the chain of events in the correct time frame). In mid 1967 the events in the very northwest corner of Vietnam started to fall in place (Khe Sahn ad a few other spots). Sharp and Gen. Waltz tended to ignore them for what they actually were; where Westy figured it out early on in 1967. By the end of 67 they knew they were in trouble up near the DMZ, and it just got worse by the day.The day before the start of Tet in 1968 (actual day of the month escapes me) Westy sends Abrams to I-Corps, to relieve several members of the General staff. Of course it never happened as that night was the start of the 1968 Tet Offensive as well as the well known Siege of Khe Sahn. The cataylist for Abrams trip was the fall of A101 right outside of Khe Sahn (still a huge bitter pill regarding that one event). After Tet the Marines were moved further north, and supplimented with the 5th Mech. Infantry (I realy don't know much about these guys), and they were given the area just below the DMZ. The 1st Air Cav was slated to take over everything south of the 5th Mech, but that never happened till several years later. That area ended up being part of the 101st Airborne's AO, with two full strength brigades. This AO was huge, and took in everything from the Lao border all the way east to Highway One. South to near Hue and north to within about fifty miles of the DMZ. Marines pretty took care of the coastal areas and most everything on or near Highway One. But by then they'd also left the Chu Lai area and were pretty much totally north of Tam Key. There was a couple interesting places that Marine Force Recon had the few will ever know about, and they were pretty tough places to goto (I got drafted into going to one of them on an island just off the coast line once). Also the Marines still sent out recon patrols out near the Lao border as business as usual. Problem was that there just wasn't enough Marines, and there was a good supply of regular Army personel. Right after Tet in 68 they added the 82nd Airborne to the mix, and they spread those guys out all over the place (mostly south of Chu Lai as you CANNOT put the 82nd and put the 101st into the same AO!!) From early summer of 1968 the vast majority of I-Corps was under the 196th and the 101st with the 82nd filling in where the 101st had been prior (bet that went over real well). I'm not one to say that this guy or that guy had the toughest AO in Vietnam, but in my mind I'd have to say it was the 101st and the 196th with the 25th Infantry falling in there somewhere. But of course somebody else will say something different.
An interesting note here is that the 101st was slated to take over everything north of Da Nang prior to the 68 Tet Offensive. Course it never happened. Instead they were sent further south to Saigon to take Cholon and the Race Track along with a Vietnamese Panther Battalion. This was very tough house to house combat, but the NVA and VC soon found out that they'd met a new kid on the block. When the 82nd flew into Chu Lai we all thought they were headed north, but it never happened.
gary
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 03:54 AM UTC
Okay fellas, I've finished reading the Verlinden warmachines M108 / M109/ M109A1 / A2 book (you'll be pleased to know that, Tony, I'm sure) but I have another question for you guys.
In many of the photographs there is quite a lot of equipment stowed in dedicated stowage areas on the top of the turret like tow cable, sledge hammer & even the .50cal tripod. Now, would this equipment always be stowed here or not? I mean was it imperative for each vehicle to have all this sort of equipment that it was issued with or would some of it be "lost" or discarded over time?
And what other sort of stores / equipment would be stowed on the vehicle?
Mabye tool boxes, drinking water, crews personal equipment, etc, etc, perhaps?
Anything you can think of that would make the model even more interesting.
Thanks guys.
Joe.
In many of the photographs there is quite a lot of equipment stowed in dedicated stowage areas on the top of the turret like tow cable, sledge hammer & even the .50cal tripod. Now, would this equipment always be stowed here or not? I mean was it imperative for each vehicle to have all this sort of equipment that it was issued with or would some of it be "lost" or discarded over time?
And what other sort of stores / equipment would be stowed on the vehicle?
Mabye tool boxes, drinking water, crews personal equipment, etc, etc, perhaps?
Anything you can think of that would make the model even more interesting.
Thanks guys.
Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 06:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Okay fellas, I've finished reading the Verlinden warmachines M108 / M109/ M109A1 / A2 book (you'll be pleased to know that, Tony, I'm sure) but I have another question for you guys.
In many of the photographs there is quite a lot of equipment stowed in dedicated stowage areas on the top of the turret like tow cable, sledge hammer & even the .50cal tripod. Now, would this equipment always be stowed here or not? I mean was it imperative for each vehicle to have all this sort of equipment that it was issued with or would some of it be "lost" or discarded over time?
And what other sort of stores / equipment would be stowed on the vehicle?
Mabye tool boxes, drinking water, crews personal equipment, etc, etc, perhaps?
Anything you can think of that would make the model even more interesting.
Thanks guys.
Joe.
I can only reply to this from a CAV units perspective, so take that in mind. Everyting had it's place, and you'd be alble to reach for it in the darkest night and find it. Yet no two tracks were set up the sameway. Water and ammo were given the highest priority. On a tank nothing got in the way of the engine transmission compartment, as they often had to open them up in a hurry. I know we've all seen photos of M113's with junk piled on the front, but that can be removed in about a minute.
gary
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 06:22 AM UTC
All the gear is usually stored on the vehicle. It isn't usually lost. The crew chief is signed for all the basic issue items (BII) and is held financially liable if it is lost.
What else is on the vehicle again depends on what the situation is. If its in a fixed position it will not have much else on it. Some of the BII may be stored elsewhere as well. Or may be in use such as the tripod and .50 cal on the perimeter. If it is in the field in an open firing position, it will be loaded down with all sorts of personal gear, rations, extra small arms and MG ammo, water, etc., etc., etc...
M109A6 Paladins in the initial invasion of Iraq:
vs. later in the war firing from fixed positions. Notice it is almost bare of stowage and BII.
What else is on the vehicle again depends on what the situation is. If its in a fixed position it will not have much else on it. Some of the BII may be stored elsewhere as well. Or may be in use such as the tripod and .50 cal on the perimeter. If it is in the field in an open firing position, it will be loaded down with all sorts of personal gear, rations, extra small arms and MG ammo, water, etc., etc., etc...
M109A6 Paladins in the initial invasion of Iraq:
vs. later in the war firing from fixed positions. Notice it is almost bare of stowage and BII.
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:04 AM UTC
Okay fellas,
Point taken. That really answers my question. So in a semi permanent position the gear may not be stowed on the vehicle but in a place around the gun position where everybody knows where it is, right?
Did each vehicle have its own tool box? I'd like to depict this vehicle with its engine bay revealed & think a tool box nearby would look pretty good.
If each vehicle did have a tool box how comprehensive would it have been?
Joe.
Point taken. That really answers my question. So in a semi permanent position the gear may not be stowed on the vehicle but in a place around the gun position where everybody knows where it is, right?
Did each vehicle have its own tool box? I'd like to depict this vehicle with its engine bay revealed & think a tool box nearby would look pretty good.
If each vehicle did have a tool box how comprehensive would it have been?
Joe.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:19 AM UTC
The on-board toolbag as part of the BII is very limited and fits in a small tool bag. It usually has a couple screw drivers (striaght and cross-tipped), a hammer, a pliers, and a couple crescent wrenches. The crew is only expected to do minimal Operator Level Maintenance; ie. check fluids, tighten battery connectors, check the air in the tires, look for leaks, etc. The tool kit supports this.
Any major repair work such as engine work, is considered Organizational Level Maintenence. This is done by the unit's mechanics. The mechanics have what is called a #1 Common Tool Kit. It is quite large an fills the tool truck or tool room in a maintenance bay. The mechanics have small tool boxes they throw th eneeded tools in for a specific job as needed. These tool boxes look just like civilain modls and many are the commonly seen red metal boxes used on the civilian side as well.
Any major repair work such as engine work, is considered Organizational Level Maintenence. This is done by the unit's mechanics. The mechanics have what is called a #1 Common Tool Kit. It is quite large an fills the tool truck or tool room in a maintenance bay. The mechanics have small tool boxes they throw th eneeded tools in for a specific job as needed. These tool boxes look just like civilain modls and many are the commonly seen red metal boxes used on the civilian side as well.
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:29 AM UTC
Thanks Gino,
So if there was maintenance to be done on the engine (not a major refurb but change an air filter, for instance) would the mechanic come out to the gun emplacement or would the vehicle have to be taken away to a workshop?
Joe.
So if there was maintenance to be done on the engine (not a major refurb but change an air filter, for instance) would the mechanic come out to the gun emplacement or would the vehicle have to be taken away to a workshop?
Joe.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:32 AM UTC
You got it. For minor repairs (hang a new fan belt, change out a headlight, put in new batteries, etc...), the mechanic comes to the vehicle. For anything major, the vehicle goe to the maintenance shop or area.
By the way, an air filter change is Operator Level Maintenance.
By the way, an air filter change is Operator Level Maintenance.
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:44 AM UTC
Thanks Gino,
That's brilliant. I'll be able to show off the engine with a few tools laying on the engine deck, then.
Oh boy, I've got some great ideas going around in my head!
Okay, what about this? Would it have been allowed to have, say, a playboy centrefold poster taped to the inside of a door / hatch or interior wall of the fighting compartment or locker?
What about peace signs & anti war slogans. I know these were more prevalent among GI's towards the end of the war. How would the "lifers" react to this?
Joe.
That's brilliant. I'll be able to show off the engine with a few tools laying on the engine deck, then.
Oh boy, I've got some great ideas going around in my head!
Okay, what about this? Would it have been allowed to have, say, a playboy centrefold poster taped to the inside of a door / hatch or interior wall of the fighting compartment or locker?
What about peace signs & anti war slogans. I know these were more prevalent among GI's towards the end of the war. How would the "lifers" react to this?
Joe.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 01:35 PM UTC
A pin-up, definitely. You still see some around in all male units today, although they are usually not nudes, more the likes of Maxim stuff. The anti-war slogans and such were more frowned upon and less visible.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 02:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
All the gear is usually stored on the vehicle. It isn't usually lost. The crew chief is signed for all the basic issue items (BII) and is held financially liable if it is lost.
What else is on the vehicle again depends on what the situation is. If its in a fixed position it will not have much else on it. Some of the BII may be stored elsewhere as well. Or may be in use such as the tripod and .50 cal on the perimeter. If it is in the field in an open firing position, it will be loaded down with all sorts of personal gear, rations, extra small arms and MG ammo, water, etc., etc., etc...
M109A6 Paladins in the initial invasion of Iraq:
vs. later in the war firing from fixed positions. Notice it is almost bare of stowage and BII.
Gino,
you know it's really kinda interesting looking at the evolution of the M109. The ones in the picture look like a completely different hull that the older ones! Have you seen or heard anything about a gas turbine powered one? Also what is the blue box ontop (range finder?) Nice to see a bunch of Allison's finest rolling down the highway!
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 02:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
A pin-up, definitely. You still see some around in all male units today, although they are usually not nudes, more the likes of Maxim stuff. The anti-war slogans and such were more frowned upon and less visible.
on my forced stint in FDC way back in the model T era, we worked out of a bunker that was two thirds under ground. Had plywood walls all the way around with two rooms in it. Every wall in the place was covered with centerfolds just like wall paper! There were so many that it actually has showed up in a couple books and magazines.
gary
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 06:40 PM UTC
Thanks Gary & Gino,
That's great because I've got a couple of decal / paper sheets here with Mayfair / Penthouse centrefolds from the 60's in 1/35th. They are photo realistic & would look magnificent on the rear hatch of the M108 / M109 or even in the back of an ACAV.
You can buy these sheets from Mec Models in Holland or Real Models in the Czech Republic.
I guess it's the same story for pop stars, eh? The sheets also contain pictures of the Beatles, Hendrix, etc, etc.
Gary, that story of the "centrefold" bunker sounds great! I can just imagine what that looks like with all those round eyes on the walls! Thing is, I'll have to invest in loads more sheets if I wanted to model something like that!
Thanks anyway fellas, for your usual help!
Talk later.
Joe.
That's great because I've got a couple of decal / paper sheets here with Mayfair / Penthouse centrefolds from the 60's in 1/35th. They are photo realistic & would look magnificent on the rear hatch of the M108 / M109 or even in the back of an ACAV.
You can buy these sheets from Mec Models in Holland or Real Models in the Czech Republic.
I guess it's the same story for pop stars, eh? The sheets also contain pictures of the Beatles, Hendrix, etc, etc.
Gary, that story of the "centrefold" bunker sounds great! I can just imagine what that looks like with all those round eyes on the walls! Thing is, I'll have to invest in loads more sheets if I wanted to model something like that!
Thanks anyway fellas, for your usual help!
Talk later.
Joe.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 10:59 PM UTC
On the Paladin, I'm not sure what blue box you see. There is the armored pantel cover that has a glass front, it may look blue reflecting the sky. There is currently no plan to put a gas turbine in an M109. The M109 was supposed to be replced by the Crusader by now, which was an Abrams-based howitzer with a gas turbine, but that program was cancelled. The current M109A6 Paladin configuration is expected to be around until at least 2025. Almost 75 years for a howitzer is pretty good if you ask me.
Or you could just go online and do a search for centerfole, playboy, ect. and resize and print all you want for free. I don't buy any printed items from AM companies. I can make them myself just as good.
Here is an example of magazine covers and newspapers:
Quoted Text
I've got a couple of decal / paper sheets here with Mayfair / Penthouse centrefolds from the 60's in 1/35th...You can buy these sheets from Mec Models in Holland or Real Models in the Czech Republic...I'll have to invest in loads more sheets if I wanted to model something like that!
Or you could just go online and do a search for centerfole, playboy, ect. and resize and print all you want for free. I don't buy any printed items from AM companies. I can make them myself just as good.
Here is an example of magazine covers and newspapers:
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 11:11 PM UTC
Hi Gino,
That model build looks brilliant! I really love it!
Unfortunately, I wouldn't have a clue how to do my own prints on a computer. I'm not very good with these things.
Would you be able to point me in the right direction?
Joe.
That model build looks brilliant! I really love it!
Unfortunately, I wouldn't have a clue how to do my own prints on a computer. I'm not very good with these things.
Would you be able to point me in the right direction?
Joe.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 11:17 PM UTC
Its really pretty easy. All you do is find the image you want. Copy it by right clicking your mouse and clicking copy. Open PowerPoint and right click the page and click paste. This will put the picture in PowerPoint. Now click the pic and resize it by dragging in the sides. Once you have the size you want, print. I use the best print setting on my printer and get the great quality you see above. Give it a try, it is really not that hard.
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 04:43 AM UTC
Hi Gino,
Thanks for the explanation. I'll give it a go this evening. The computer is my wifes & she's pretty good with these things. I'll see if she will help me.
I cant wait to see her face when I get the Penthouse & Mayfair magazines out! LOL
Joe.
Thanks for the explanation. I'll give it a go this evening. The computer is my wifes & she's pretty good with these things. I'll see if she will help me.
I cant wait to see her face when I get the Penthouse & Mayfair magazines out! LOL
Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 01:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
On the Paladin, I'm not sure what blue box you see. There is the armored pantel cover that has a glass front, it may look blue reflecting the sky. There is currently no plan to put a gas turbine in an M109. The M109 was supposed to be replced by the Crusader by now, which was an Abrams-based howitzer with a gas turbine, but that program was cancelled. The current M109A6 Paladin configuration is expected to be around until at least 2025. Almost 75 years for a howitzer is pretty good if you ask me.
Quoted TextI've got a couple of decal / paper sheets here with Mayfair / Penthouse centrefolds from the 60's in 1/35th...You can buy these sheets from Mec Models in Holland or Real Models in the Czech Republic...I'll have to invest in loads more sheets if I wanted to model something like that!
Or you could just go online and do a search for centerfole, playboy, ect. and resize and print all you want for free. I don't buy any printed items from AM companies. I can make them myself just as good.
Here is an example of magazine covers and newspapers:
TACOM had us do several power pacs for the new generation SPG, and also had a couple hi tech shooting systems built for the runoffs. One used a very similar powerpac as to the M1 tank. Another used the X1100-5 transmission and a Cummins engine. Another was the AFAX transmission and a Cummins deisel engine. And yet one more that was a hybrid electric drive & Cummins engine. The X1100's wouldn't work all that well (we told them). They liked the AFAX, but the one that they really liked was the hybrid electric drive even though it still had a lot of teething problems to sort out (they are all fixed as I write this). The two hitec guns were completely different than anything out there right now. One uses an inert liquid hydrogen compound and has another compound injected into the mix after the breech closes. Is set off by a spark plug. They felt the breech was good for at least a thousand rounds before needing a cleaning. The liquid mixtures are feed into the breech via a series of servo valves, and charges are almost infinite (you have a charge six and one quarter if you want). The other used the electrical system to propel the round at velocities similar to the M1 tank. I saw a piece to Chabom armor hit at 4000 yards that looked like it was setting in a punch press! A perfect six diameter hole with singe marks all the way around. This one would not have to have the breech cleaned but maybe once a year or whenever they have a CMMI or an IG. But most of all it dosn't need a borevac system!
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 01:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Gary,
Was I Corps the place where the hardest fighting took place?
Wasn't that a marine AO until Westmoreland sent Abrams in there to take over as MACV North? I think that's the right term. And the marines really resented that, didn't they?
Joe.
I did not answer this and maybe I should have, and mybe I shouldn't. In my own opinion the roughest place in RVN was without a doubt the Ashau Valley. Not by a little bit, but by a long shot. But the single hardest fought battles I can think of were during Tet in Saigon believe it or not. The area around the "race track" and Cholon were horrible house to house fighting. Kam Duc area also falls in there someplace and the Hiep Duc Ridge Line as well as the Valley itself (maybe I'm a little slanted here, but it's a somewhat educated opinion). Cav guys used to say the worst place they'd ever seen was a patch of ground known as "The Pineapple Forest" in the valley of death. I know two that visited it a few times, and also did the rubber plantations down south. They both say that they made their wills out everytime they went thru there. Another garden spot that was kinda quiet when I did my tour was the next valley north of the Que Son Valley (Sang Chang maybe), but later errupted into a regular nightmare. The events at Marryanne are a scarey read in themselves (forget what that idiot Nolan has to say). Guess the list could go one forever
gary
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 06:42 PM UTC
Now that's an interesting read, Gary.
That idiot - are you refering to Keith William Nolan? If so, why do you say that?
I'm interested in your opinion as I've read a couple of his books.
I'd like to know what Vets think of these historians who weren't actually there during the fighting & rely on secondary evidence for their thesis.
Joe.
That idiot - are you refering to Keith William Nolan? If so, why do you say that?
I'm interested in your opinion as I've read a couple of his books.
I'd like to know what Vets think of these historians who weren't actually there during the fighting & rely on secondary evidence for their thesis.
Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 06:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Now that's an interesting read, Gary.
That idiot - are you refering to Keith William Nolan? If so, why do you say that?
I'm interested in your opinion as I've read a couple of his books.
I'd like to know what Vets think of these historians who weren't actually there during the fighting & rely on secondary evidence for their thesis.
Joe.
I don't like say negative things about dead folks, but consider him and his opinions to be on the border line of out and out lies half the time. Mr. Nolan relies heavilly on after action reports that are compiled by a clerk whos interpeting an after action report fron a company commander, whi intern gets his data from a platoon leader. The platoon leader intern gets his data from several squad leaders. Each time the reports are passed on a clerk types up the next report and you loose data along the way. So he then adds his own opinion as an adjective even though it's completely wrong 80% of the time. I noticed this in his book Lam Son 719; as I happen to know a dozen or so warm bodies that were there. I gave one of them the book, and he blew up like a bomb! Perhaps if Mr. Nolan was on Lam Son 719 he'd have had an attitude change, I don't know. I read his book Death Valley awhile back, and said to myself that this is garbage! How he managed to put units in places I'll never know! And then the absolute insults he hands out to the guys on Marryanne. If I was on Marryanne; I think I'd have had a upfront and extremely personal chit chat with him! (this should have been in caps). Between Nolan and the History Channel; I just can't imagine which one is more in error.
If you want to read about Vietnam armor, I'd suggest you start with the book "Hundred Miles Of Bad Road" by Dwight Birdwell. This book will make your hair stand up half the time, and it's dead on the money. A good book about Special Op's is "No Greater Love". You'll start that book, and not put it down till your finished (think 500lb. snakeyes 75 feet in front of you). Hal Moore's book is also exceptional (they made the movie off of the book)
glt
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 07:48 AM UTC
Gary,
I've got a couple of Nolans books here & wasn't too impressed by them. I've got the "Battle of Saigon", "Battle of Hue" & "Into Cambodia". I was going to get "Into Laos" but after what you've said I dont think I'll bother now!
"Hundred Miles of Bad Road", "No Greater Love" & "We Were Soldiers Once..." are now on my wish list!
I do hate it when these so-called "historians" take the truth & twist it so that it fits their interpretation of things. It's a real pity.
Joe.
I've got a couple of Nolans books here & wasn't too impressed by them. I've got the "Battle of Saigon", "Battle of Hue" & "Into Cambodia". I was going to get "Into Laos" but after what you've said I dont think I'll bother now!
"Hundred Miles of Bad Road", "No Greater Love" & "We Were Soldiers Once..." are now on my wish list!
I do hate it when these so-called "historians" take the truth & twist it so that it fits their interpretation of things. It's a real pity.
Joe.
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.