Massachusetts, United States
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 1,271 posts
Armorama: 1,253 posts
Posted: Friday, July 11, 2014 - 03:27 PM UTC
I think a great represenation of the German's reliance on REAL "horsepower" was in one of the last episodes of Band of Brothers, when the 101st was driving past a long column of German POWs using horses and carts. I found this somber pic a few days ago that reminded me of this thread;
Kinda sad, it also reminded me of a great diorama of an SS unit retreating with casualties loaded onto a horse drawn wagon. I think you shared the link to it at some point? Either way, I really like where this one is going, you always seem to get interesting scenes done.
-Conor
I'm doin' stuff. Lotta stuff.
Wien, Austria
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Friday, July 11, 2014 - 07:09 PM UTC
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Kurt Alan and Dave,
Thanks for checking in buddies. Alan,yes,they still used copious amounts of horses right up till the curtain call. I have pics of fields filled with horses surrendered by German units as they turned over their combat equipment to the allies. I think the poor beasts probably ended up in the pot to feed the starving population at the wars' end.
J
No doubt! With constant petrol shortage worsening...!
We don't think enough about all the poor and innocent animals dragged into this war, from horses, mules and donkeys to carrier pigeons and dogs carrying antitank charges under enemy vehicles!
They were all gladly sacrificed for the war effort!
Cheers
Romain
un pour tous et tous pour un!
Wien, Austria
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Friday, July 11, 2014 - 07:17 PM UTC
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Hi Kurt,
I think the one on the left has a neck that maybe too big. It could be the angle though.
The details are a bit better on that one as far as anatomy goes.
I still actually like the old old Italerie one the best though as far as proportions go.
J
Thanks Jerry for your excellent explanation , much appreciated .
Kurt
Hi guys,
Jerry might have a point with the neck being a tad long on the MB horse, but in general, the Italeri horse looks more the part! We are talking about horses bred to draw loads, not jumping obstacles. And the Italeri horse has this look IMHO!
Are they still producing their waggons I wonder!?!?
Cheers
Romain
un pour tous et tous pour un!
Wien, Austria
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Friday, July 11, 2014 - 07:21 PM UTC
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Muggy and hot today,not very inspiring weather for a battle of the bulge dio,sorry guys.
I will stick with the horsies for now.
J
Oh I understand Mr. Rutman sir, I don't blame you in the slightest. I'm fiddling with a Caen vignette now but I'm sort of not pleased with a different approach to Oak Leaf I took.
Come winter when things freeze though, I'll be waiting to resume the attack on the Sanatorium with great interest.
All the best to you as well, Romain, I know a few people who've had to go through that and you've got my utmost sympathies. Get well soon buddy.
-Conor
Hi Conor,
thanks a bunch for your kind wishes m8!! Sorry I overlooked your post! I seem to have been somewhat confused lately!
Cheers
Romain
un pour tous et tous pour un!
Wien, Austria
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Friday, July 11, 2014 - 07:25 PM UTC
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ooooh!!!! A new element..!!!
And it looks like more geegees!!! Super!!
Impatient to see where this is leading to!!
Cheers
Romain
Romain!!! My wife was floored when I told her of this post quote!!!! She thought for certain that no one else in the universe used the term " Geegees " for horses....
Awesome!
must be a "generations thingy" and very british too, so...!!
Glad you had some fun!!
Cheers
Romain
un pour tous et tous pour un!
West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: August 22, 2009
KitMaker: 1,491 posts
Armorama: 997 posts
Posted: Friday, July 11, 2014 - 08:32 PM UTC
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Hi Kurt,
I think the one on the left has a neck that maybe too big. It could be the angle though.
The details are a bit better on that one as far as anatomy goes.
I still actually like the old old Italerie one the best though as far as proportions go.
J
Thanks Jerry for your excellent explanation , much appreciated .
Kurt
Hi guys,
Jerry might have a point with the neck being a tad long on the MB horse, but in general, the Italeri horse looks more the part! We are talking about horses bred to draw loads, not jumping obstacles. And the Italeri horse has this look IMHO!
Are they still producing their waggons I wonder!?!?
Cheers
Romain
Hello guys ,
with your permission Jerry ???
i've searched on the internet and i have found a couple of items...
[url=http://www.ipmsusa3.org/reviews/Kits/Misc/Italeri_35_Horse_Convoy/it6437.jpg However ,i do not no if they are still on the market???
By the way , thanks for that very nice conversation we had Romain. Wish you all the best m8 !
Cheers
Kurt
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 12:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think a great represenation of the German's reliance on REAL "horsepower" was in one of the last episodes of Band of Brothers, when the 101st was driving past a long column of German POWs using horses and carts. I found this somber pic a few days ago that reminded me of this thread;
Kinda sad, it also reminded me of a great diorama of an SS unit retreating with casualties loaded onto a horse drawn wagon. I think you shared the link to it at some point? Either way, I really like where this one is going, you always seem to get interesting scenes done.
-Conor
Thanks for that cool pic Conor. Hadn't seen that one. Looks to me like the horse got stuck in a very deep rut probably made by a truck or halftrack as the wheelbase looks narrow. It has a standard German harness set-up. Horses usually sit like this when they feel it is hopeless to get out or they are over tired. Doesn't look good and breaks my heart.
Such is the reality of war.
Can't see the towed equipment but it looks like maybe a M/G carrier or commo carrier with limber? Too light for an arty limber.
J
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 12:37 AM UTC
Thanks again all,for looking in on my humble efforts.
Kurt and Romain,
You can still find the old Italerei supply wagon and medic wagon sets at shows and swap meets but they are getting harder to locate as they get older.
There was also a cool set they sold called"Horsedrawn Convoy" that included both!
Romain is correct(usually is) and these horsies look like humble draft animals. The new MB one is meant to be a cavalry mount as are the new cossack sets,etc. Taller,leaner beasts.
I may be wrong but I thought Italerei re-released these sets not too long ago? If not ,they should as they are still respectable kits givin some tlc.
J
Wien, Austria
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 06:47 AM UTC
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Hi Kurt,
I think the one on the left has a neck that maybe too big. It could be the angle though.
The details are a bit better on that one as far as anatomy goes.
I still actually like the old old Italerie one the best though as far as proportions go.
J
Thanks Jerry for your excellent explanation , much appreciated .
Kurt
Hi guys,
Jerry might have a point with the neck being a tad long on the MB horse, but in general, the Italeri horse looks more the part! We are talking about horses bred to draw loads, not jumping obstacles. And the Italeri horse has this look IMHO!
Are they still producing their waggons I wonder!?!?
Cheers
Romain
Hello guys ,
with your permission Jerry ???
i've searched on the internet and i have found a couple of items...
[url=http://www.ipmsusa3.org/reviews/Kits/Misc/Italeri_35_Horse_Convoy/it6437.jpg
However ,i do not no if they are still on the market???
By the way , thanks for that very nice conversation we had Romain. Wish you all the best m8 !
Cheers
Kurt
Hi Kurt,
thanks a bunch for the good wishes m8! And you are welcome anytime for any friendly conversation! :-)
Cheers
Romain
un pour tous et tous pour un!
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 02:32 PM UTC
Small update. Replaced the clasps on the windows with PE,filled in some cracks and holes and made some new grab handles. Added a 50cal hole on the top and out the front and did some light scribing on the wood amoung other things. I love updating and adding stuff to older kits. But I don't want to get carried away as sometimes I end up scratchbuilding the whole thing instead.
Alberta, Canada
Joined: August 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,295 posts
Armorama: 1,191 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 02:57 PM UTC
Romain, my wife wants you to know that she is WAY younger then I am... And how did you know that her Pompa was British!!! Or at least that she was from British decent???
Do what you love, and love what you do... then everything else is simply an extension of that which drives your heart.
Alberta, Canada
Joined: August 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,295 posts
Armorama: 1,191 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 03:01 PM UTC
Jerry, this makes me think of the old west stage coaches. It's gonna be a great addition.
Keep on keeping on...
Do what you love, and love what you do... then everything else is simply an extension of that which drives your heart.
Wien, Austria
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 07:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Romain, my wife wants you to know that she is WAY younger then I am... And how did you know that her Pompa was British!!! Or at least that she was from British decent???
Hi Dave,
you got me terribly wrong I'm afraid! I would never suggest your missus were elderly!!
THAT particular remark was referring to me! I'm the "Old Generation" here (or at least part of
).
And british....well, I've never heard the term outside Britain anyway (except perhaps me using it
).
That has to do with my affinity to good old England! I can't help it....it brought me to the parachute, it provided me with real good friends and a son in law!!
You cannot fight that, can you!
Cheers
Romain
un pour tous et tous pour un!
Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 08:44 PM UTC
hi old guys! This thread shows nice items of a seldom mentioned way of transport in the Wehrmacht: horse power. Over 50% of the transport of the army during the whole WW2 was realised with this. I can remember a story of my grandfather telling about the ''take over" of Dutch artillery horses in June 1940 for the continuation of the German campaigns in France. Too little mondeling subjects are sold to my opinion.
I like this thread very much. As a horseman by birth and an arty officer I see things coming together in a very nice way.
And about the anatomy issues: almost any horse which could physically do the job was taken. During the Reforger exercises in the 70ties and 80ties I have met old former Kavallerie soldiers during weekend breaks, who told me that character and ease of handeling was the most important item for this "piece of equipement".
Wien, Austria
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 09:44 PM UTC
Greetings from the "Old Guys" Paul..
You are perfectly right that there are not enough scale items given the importance of horse drawn elements in the german army!
And you are right that in times of war and need every single horse would be "drafted", no matter what they looked like...just like men incidentally!
How many guys stuffed into "uniforms" towards the end were not even nearly able to do their duty!!
Cheers
Romain
un pour tous et tous pour un!
Wien, Austria
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 09:46 PM UTC
Oh yes, and I loooved my Wehrmachtssattel for its comfort when I was busy reenacting!
un pour tous et tous pour un!
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2014 - 11:26 PM UTC
Hi Jerry,
Nice work on the wagon. Where do the bullets exit?
Cheers
Al
'Action this Day'
Winston Spencer Churchill
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 03:24 AM UTC
Thanks all for looking in and the running commentary. Horse drawn stuff was very important yes,but I am pretty sure the model makers don't touch it much because it doesn't sell! Too hard for the guys to paint maybe? Or they like the motor vehicles much more?
With the rise of guys like Alan and his WWI stuff though,maybe the horses will get more action?
BTW Alan,the bullet entry is hard to see as it's on top. This was meant to be knocked out by a Jabo attack.
I have a bunch of master patterns ready for production concerning German type 18/40 horse drawn arty but no takers for production casting. This maybe goes back to"no market" for the stuff?
J
Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 04:45 AM UTC
Jerry,
Because of you and Al, the "Geegees" and carriages will undoubtedly gallop into popularity. I would hope so, anyway.
--mike
Slovakia
Joined: August 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1 posts
Armorama: 1 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 06:15 AM UTC
Removed by original poster on 07/13/14 - 18:31:57 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 07/13/14 - 18:33:14 (GMT).
Wien, Austria
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 06:39 AM UTC
Hi Tomas,
cool stuff!!! So you are actually building a replica, right!?
Thanks for sharing anyway!
Cheers
Romain
un pour tous et tous pour un!
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 11:21 AM UTC
Thanks Tomas,
Those are outrageously good pics. I wish that I had hem before this project started. That actually even looks like the original paint on it when it's in the woods.
I already have a few pics from this restoration and these will help even more. Looks like a great job on the restoring process as well.
Thanks!!
J
Alberta, Canada
Joined: August 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,295 posts
Armorama: 1,191 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 11:30 AM UTC
Romain, no worries... My wife and I were just funning with you
We know what you meant all along... But she isn't getting any younger either to know
Her Pompa (?) was actually from Birmingham. She's the youngest of four and can remember him playing soldiers with her older brothers. They would all be wearing ice cream pail "helmets"
Anyway Romain, no offence was given and none was taken!!
Cheers M8
Do what you love, and love what you do... then everything else is simply an extension of that which drives your heart.
