Dioramas: Flora & Fauna
Trees, shrubs, nature and animals.
Hosted by Darren Baker
In the cold morning of December 19, 1944
erichvon
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2016 - 02:30 AM UTC
I missed this first time around. Nice scenic work Kurt. Making trees is one thing I have always avoided doing as I just haven't the confidence or patience lol. The trees are excellent. One thing I would change however is the US tanker. I'd get rid of him. Reason being that (a)if I personally was in that tank, which is half buried by a tree, and heard German voices outside I would stay put, wounded or not, and hope that they didn't bother checking the tank. Once all was quiet then after a while I'd think about moving. There's no urgency as to geting out as it's not in flames so he can sit tight indefinitely. As was mentioned previously he could even slide out of the belly hatch and hide there (b) as you've mentioned previously the Germans don't want to lose momentum in the attack, hence giving snap orders in front of the tank, and wouldn't waste time attending to a wounded GI. They'd slot him as was fairly common for Waffen SS during the Ardennes offensive. If they patch him up that uses their medical supplies (they wouldn't waste time looking inside the tank for their first aid kit as you mentioned) plus they're going to have to leave two men to do prisoner escort back to echelon which is a waste of resources As an ex-infantryman I can understand that rationale (not condoning the shooting of POW's though lol)by putting myself in that scenario. Lets face it the SS have a poor record for care of POW's during the BoB.Obviously it's your dio and you do what you feel is best for you but he doesn't add anything to the dio and looks out of place given the scenario. If I personally saw someone pop their head out of a tank, wounded or not, I would shoot them. Especially given their proximity to my platoon commander and platoon sergeant. Just my thoughts. When building a dio I try to put myself in the place of the subject I'm modelling as it makes interaction etc easier to create. As whole though I like the way it's shaping up I just think the tanker detracts from the realism you're working on.
kurnuy
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2016 - 05:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Too bad about the older pics being lost but I like the new ones even better!
Good idea about the WSS NCO and the FJ as there was two FJ units at the defense of Stoumont and so they are logical to be in your scene.
I dunno about the FJ fancy hat though. Seems too "parade ground" for a combat situation ? That's just me though.
J



Thanks Jerry for liking the new pics. My first thought was to add a few FJ to the scene because of the fact that you've mentioned above . But second thoughts told me to get rid of the officer , there'll be no FJ . Thanks again for checking it out .

Kurt
kurnuy
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2016 - 05:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I missed this first time around. Nice scenic work Kurt. Making trees is one thing I have always avoided doing as I just haven't the confidence or patience lol. The trees are excellent. One thing I would change however is the US tanker. I'd get rid of him. Reason being that (a)if I personally was in that tank, which is half buried by a tree, and heard German voices outside I would stay put, wounded or not, and hope that they didn't bother checking the tank. Once all was quiet then after a while I'd think about moving. There's no urgency as to geting out as it's not in flames so he can sit tight indefinitely. As was mentioned previously he could even slide out of the belly hatch and hide there (b) as you've mentioned previously the Germans don't want to lose momentum in the attack, hence giving snap orders in front of the tank, and wouldn't waste time attending to a wounded GI. They'd slot him as was fairly common for Waffen SS during the Ardennes offensive. If they patch him up that uses their medical supplies (they wouldn't waste time looking inside the tank for their first aid kit as you mentioned) plus they're going to have to leave two men to do prisoner escort back to echelon which is a waste of resources As an ex-infantryman I can understand that rationale (not condoning the shooting of POW's though lol)by putting myself in that scenario. Lets face it the SS have a poor record for care of POW's during the BoB.Obviously it's your dio and you do what you feel is best for you but he doesn't add anything to the dio and looks out of place given the scenario. If I personally saw someone pop their head out of a tank, wounded or not, I would shoot them. Especially given their proximity to my platoon commander and platoon sergeant. Just my thoughts. When building a dio I try to put myself in the place of the subject I'm modelling as it makes interaction etc easier to create. As whole though I like the way it's shaping up I just think the tanker detracts from the realism you're working on.



Thanks for the reply and welcome in my Topic Karl. Okay , between fiction and reality where do you draw the line ??? First of all the title of the diorama has two meanings , firstly the cold atmosphere and secondly the hardness of the wss. We are all agree that the cold atmosphere is achieved and well executed.

My intention to put a wounded tanker in the hatch has been criticized from the very beginning . It was to Hollywood , it was to unlikely to watch him crawling out the tank , he does'nt add to the scene , etc.... don't take me wrong here any thoughts about my project(s) are welcome but it does'nt mean that if you would stay in the tank that others should do the same thing in reality . Do not underestimate the fear to be burned alive for example and maybe the tanker is completely disordered . However i agree with you as it looks for now that the tanker does'nt add much to the scene , well it's up to me than to make him more interesting . And i have something in mind . I have transferred the FJ into a wss officer .
there is more interaction with the tanker and i'm gonna put the ss soldier with the rifle in his hands behind the officer . In his place comes the nco also to interact with the tanker.

Thanks for watching .

Kurt
erichvon
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2016 - 06:54 AM UTC
Glad you took my comment in the spirit in which it was given Kurt. Some people get really touchy if you mention potentially changing something or heaven forbid criticising something lol. Like yourself I'm always open to ideas or tweaking things when someone mentions something in a dio as it's the best way to learn/improve. I've not built one for a while so really ought to apply myself to something. Half my trouble is too many kits in the stash and no inspiration or direction at the moment. Think I'll have to sit down one day this week and formulate a plan lol .
kurnuy
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2016 - 01:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Glad you took my comment in the spirit in which it was given Kurt. Some people get really touchy if you mention potentially changing something or heaven forbid criticising something lol. Like yourself I'm always open to ideas or tweaking things when someone mentions something in a dio as it's the best way to learn/improve. I've not built one for a while so really ought to apply myself to something. Half my trouble is too many kits in the stash and no inspiration or direction at the moment. Think I'll have to sit down one day this week and formulate a plan lol .



Hi Karl ,

no problem , there is no such thing as a perfect diorama . For example a diorama can be technically perfect but lacking a good story or there's no interaction between the figgies and otherwise a good story or scene but the figures or buildings are not painted very well or the vehicles , tanks are not the right ones etc.... We all trying to make the perfect scene to the viewer with the knowledge that it is almost impossible to reach a satisfying result for everyone even to ourselves. That's my personal opinion about dioramas .

I'll hope that my dio will give you the spirit , strenght and motivation to start another build .Or at least to start making a plan, scenario lol

Amen

Kurt

kurnuy
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Posted: Friday, September 23, 2016 - 09:07 PM UTC
Hi all ,

update , i didn't like the way i painted those two Alpine figures with the dog so i've decided to replace them with two other figures from Dragon with hornet heads . The soldiers are wearing their overcoat (very common in those days even for the wss) . One of them is an officer with the pistol in his hand the other one stands next to the dog .
The pictures ,




Thanks for watching !

Kurt
kurnuy
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Posted: Saturday, September 24, 2016 - 01:26 AM UTC
Second update ...



Thanks for watching !

Kurt
jrutman
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Posted: Saturday, September 24, 2016 - 06:43 PM UTC
I like the additions you made. It all works well and yes,lots of the overcoats being worn by everybody.
J
kurnuy
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Posted: Saturday, September 24, 2016 - 10:38 PM UTC
Thanks man for your reply , there's always you Jerry in the dark tunnel of silence on this forum . I'm glad you like it , all figures are done and now it's the tank to build and paint , wheatering ow looking forward to that .

Kurt.
Dioramartin
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Posted: Sunday, September 25, 2016 - 08:59 AM UTC
Hi Kurt,

Hopefully I’m one of the silent majority – we’re lurking in the shadows all down that long dark tunnel – who’s just waiting until you declare this excellent project finished, when you’ll have praise heaped upon you. Anyway 283 comments and 87K+ hits ain’t too shabby already.

So if it’s further encouragement you’re after, this is shaping up to be one of the top 10 dios on this site as far as I’m concerned, possibly top 5. And if you’ve seen any of my stuff you won’t be surprised to know I think your photography’s excellent too (except the latest slightly blurred ones).

I’d only query the semi-gloss on some of the uniforms – the leather(?) overcoats are fine, it’s the ones that must be fabric I’m referring too, & the pooch. I guess they could just be wet but….

Otherwise, it looks like there’s scope to have a sequence of 3 or 4 scenes i.e. the figures move, progressing a narrative such as the Sherman driver deciding to emerge/surrender? Any chance of blowing some steam through the undergrowth for the next shots? Sorry, can’t help myself projecting, it’s your show and it’s brilliant.

Cheers, Tim
callmehobbes
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Posted: Sunday, September 25, 2016 - 11:41 AM UTC
Hi. The groundwork/foliage looks great. I cant quite work out what the overall dio look like. A few more photo's from different angles would help. Keep the updates coming.
pnance26
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Posted: Sunday, September 25, 2016 - 08:04 PM UTC
WOW, WOW, WOW! I can actually feel the frost on the uniforms of the scene. And my personal favorite? The track in the mud from the left side of the tank. Seems like tanks lose that left track often (my dio reference).

Excellent work! I cannot believe the detail in this diorama!
kurnuy
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2016 - 12:37 AM UTC
Tim , Paul and Patrick . thanks guys for the thoughts and possitive comments .

Tim , you're right about the glossy figures i'll fix them .
Paul , more and better photos are coming !
Patrick , presenting a tank with a broken or lost track is a very simple way to show the viewer that the tank is knocked out however simulating the impact holes in the body of the tank is another story.

Kurt
kurnuy
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 01:53 AM UTC
Especially for Paul but also to others a special update..

There are several little subscenes combined into one story .

Scene 1 , the advancing party with 5 figures the platoon leader is giving his orders to his second in command . On the road a Panther G tank supports the advance ( the tank is not ready yet).

Scene 2 , the wounded Sherman driver gets interrogated by a senior wss officer and the guy next to him is the translator .

Scene 3 , the surrendering sergeant facing his opponents and they are not so happy to take him prisoner of war ...

Scene 4 in combination with 3 , two wss wearing overcoats are checking the rear of the tank but the dog spots the American soldier standing in the stream ...

Okay , the photos ..













Thanks for watching !

Kurt
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 04:07 AM UTC
Ardennenschlacht !! Pictures look good. The story all fits.
J
Dioramartin
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 04:37 PM UTC
OoooooooooooooooMG, now you ARE in my top 5 with that stream, and the black towel is a masterstroke - although I can see the hem in the 5th shot down, so there’s a 0.1 deduction! Just kidding, I realise it’s not intended to be permanent but gee it actually works. What‘s that stream made of? I don’t think I’ve ever seen running water so well done in a dio – before seeing these photos I’d have thought it was impossible to pull off so convincingly but you have, beautifully done. Pooch looks good too!

I’ve only come into this recently, I see you’ve had some flak in the past over the Sherman driver but I haven’t scrolled back to read it all, so apologies if I’m repeating. But I really think that if this patrol has just arrived, and the driver has just emerged to surrender, as far as the Germans know he could be nursing a grenade, or a pistol, to take as many of them with him as possible. Until he’s out of the tank he’s a serious risk but your patrol’s acting like he’s harmless. So maybe all you need is a guy standing over him (there is room, just) pointing a gun at his head while he’s being interrogated. Turn up the tension.

Similarly the guy in the stream would have guns aimed at him if just discovered. And in any case I’d have made him another bloodied tank crew survivor mit hande hoch rather than a random GI who looks strange anyway.

Another suggestion – that left-hand track is saying the Sherman reversed into its current position, but there’s no churned-up imprint of the right hand track’s path in the ground to match it. Easy to fix.

This dio is saying so much already, let it do ALL the story-telling so that we won’t need an explanation as to what’s going on - apart from maybe a snappier title like “Ardennes – no escape” or similar.

And again, your photography is simply superb to match the quality of the dio, congratulations. (PS please please please try blowing some steam in a couple of photos, if only to prove it won’t work)

Cheers, Tim
pnance26
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 07:18 PM UTC
Kurt,
I am just amazed with the detail and level of the work you are putting into this story. There is just nothing like it.

I do agree with some of Tim's points about the surrendering GIs but here is what I really think...

Instead of you providing the narrative for your story, let the scene play it out. See what we think it says and then let us know if it matches your creative ideas. That way, you may get lots more interpretations for your work. Good art says different things to different people. I used this same rationale when the music industry started making videos on a regular basis for certain tunes. I cannot hear "Centerfold" by J. Geils Band without seeing the video in my head... same thing for "You Got Lucky" by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. They told me a story that was their idea and now I can't imagine it any other way. Same thing for your above excellent work. Show it to me and let me make up my own story.

I am as guilty as you even in my first attempt. I want you to know what I am thinking when I really should be asking "What does this scene make you think of?"

Goethe once said good art should answer three questions: 1) "What is the artist trying to say?"; 2) "How well did the artist say it?" and 3) "Was it worth saying?" I think you have hit the mark on all three counts way beyond anything I could do. But you inspire me and give me a bar to try and look upon... I don't think I can clear it but you sure make me want to try.

And the black towel is brilliant. I thought it was a canyon wall until I read Tim's post!

Keep it up!
callmehobbes
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 08:04 PM UTC
Thanks. For me, the best shots are looking through the trees onto the german patrol. Top effort.
erichvon
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 09:29 PM UTC
Kurt, one of the techniques I use for shell damage (non penetrating) is using a drill bit. Not one of the micro drills that we usually use for modelling but the sort of thing for drilling metal or household use. Obviously don't stick it in a drill lol. I use it by hand and drill the surface until there's a decent indentation and once I'm happy with the depth, paint the damage with a combination of iron and steel if it's fresh damage. You can simulate glancing blows by using the drill bit horizontally. It's something I've done on a couple of German tanks (I don't think I've got any photos yet though) to show hits that have just bounced off. It looks pretty effective as damage and also illustrates the strength of German frontal armour for dio purposes. You could use it for a strike on the mantlet or turret edge for a glancing strike. Try it on an old kit and see what you think.
kurnuy
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Posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 - 01:34 AM UTC
Hi guys ,

WOW an avalanche of replies and some thoughts too...

* Jerry , genau mein guter Freund ( exactly my good friend ) die ardennes Schlacht...( the battle of the Ardennes ). Thanks for the follow up.

* Tim , nope not a hem but simply the design in the towel lol. About the tankdriver ... well you can see the scene in many ways another possibility is that he's begging for his life and in that case he is not a threat to them. There are many interpretations possible in this scene and honestly a soldier standing on the tank with his rifle pointed to the tanker doesn't add to much. Why i think so ? Because it's a little bit to obvious in my opinion. This is pure fiction and in that case everything is possible and as i said before it's just impossible to create something to please everyone. Same thing with the sergeant in the stream that's pure fiction ... Thanks for your thoughts. P.S...blowing steam ...hmm...tempting , very inspiring. And don't worry about the imprints of the track , i have to restyle the terrain a little bit.

* Patrick , well if there's someone who can give someone else a big compliment ...it's you , thank you very much for that . Your beautiful words are telling everything that i want to say about the diorama. Thanks again ! You are right let the imagination free, feel the action !

* Paul , you're welcome my pleasure !

* Karl , thanks for the good advice appreciated .

Kurt
strongarden
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Posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 - 11:38 PM UTC
Kurt

Thanks for sticking w/ this as you've created quite a scene. I like it when a diorama-tist (is that a word?) is able to explain his intent when queried about his work. You have a valid point in your responses to the viewers: it's fiction, and you created it.

But the points presented to you, and you alone, are actually quite accurate as well.
The severely wounded tanker (I mean, that's a lot of blood from his head) being armed or not, the length of opened track (straight and true), soldier in the stream (relates how to the story?), damage to the Sherman (too much?), even the presence of a canine unit are all interesting aspects in your visual story.
And you have given us the reasons why (it all makes sense) and did so w/ class, patience, and respect.

For me Kurt this is just another example of why this is still a great hobby, and Armorama is a great blog-sphere You gain knowledge, friends, and maybe even some inspiration too!

And it's already been stated that your scenery, trees, stream, figs, tank(s), and yes your overall story is really right-on. I like it, and I know I learned alot! again! from reading thru the pages.
Nice job, you deserve all the praise brudda

Now about that Panther....

Sincerely
Dave
kurnuy
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Posted: Friday, September 30, 2016 - 01:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Kurt

Thanks for sticking w/ this as you've created quite a scene. I like it when a diorama-tist (is that a word?) is able to explain his intent when queried about his work. You have a valid point in your responses to the viewers: it's fiction, and you created it.

But the points presented to you, and you alone, are actually quite accurate as well.
The severely wounded tanker (I mean, that's a lot of blood from his head) being armed or not, the length of opened track (straight and true), soldier in the stream (relates how to the story?), damage to the Sherman (too much?), even the presence of a canine unit are all interesting aspects in your visual story.
And you have given us the reasons why (it all makes sense) and did so w/ class, patience, and respect.

For me Kurt this is just another example of why this is still a great hobby, and Armorama is a great blog-sphere You gain knowledge, friends, and maybe even some inspiration too!

And it's already been stated that your scenery, trees, stream, figs, tank(s), and yes your overall story is really right-on. I like it, and I know I learned alot! again! from reading thru the pages.
Nice job, you deserve all the praise brudda

Now about that Panther....

Sincerely
Dave



Hi Dave ,

well thank you very much for these very impressive words of encouragement !I'm glad to notice that you learn about my work .Thanks also for the likes . The big thing that stroke my mind is that the Panther will be the biggest eyecatcher not the little scenes that i've created . So it's better to be carefull with the beast .

Kurt
cheyenne
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Posted: Friday, September 30, 2016 - 04:08 PM UTC
Masterpiece Kurt , figures , forest , story , all on the brilliant side .
I especially like the way you have dusted the snow to show it as old - been there awhile snow , you know , patches from an earlier snowfall , lingering on branches , ground etc.

Just a thought , have you tried placing a light [ only one with no other lights ] shining from one direction and see if it creates a shadows and sunbeams effect through the forest ?

All in all a beautiful build Kurt !!!

kurnuy
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Posted: Saturday, October 01, 2016 - 12:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Masterpiece Kurt , figures , forest , story , all on the brilliant side .
I especially like the way you have dusted the snow to show it as old - been there awhile snow , you know , patches from an earlier snowfall , lingering on branches , ground etc.

Just a thought , have you tried placing a light [ only one with no other lights ] shining from one direction and see if it creates a shadows and sunbeams effect through the forest ?

All in all a beautiful build Kurt !!!




Hi Cheyenne ,

thanks for checking in and the possitive comments . Your idea to shine a light in one direction is simply outstanding ! So i gave it a try and here are the pictures .. may i warn the viewers that the black background on the photos is just a towel ...





What an excellent idea !!
Kurt
66fastback
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Posted: Saturday, October 01, 2016 - 01:21 AM UTC
Hi there great job i love the way you display the ancient European Forrest's. Since I'm not building anything right now I'm humble in my comment.

Looking at where the German anti tank ammo hole in the Sherman tank is positioned would it not have misted/vaporized the poor guy sitting there?
It makes me think that anybody alive crawling out of that Sherman has to be covered in his blood.
It is not a criticism but more a thing that made me curious on the shape of crews that "survive" a direct hit like that.

Eric