Just wondering.
DJ
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210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 01:19 AM UTC
Amigos---does anyone want to get into a discussion on the Belton book? I have real heartburn with his thesis and conclusions.
Just wondering.
DJ
Just wondering.
DJ
RufusLeeking
Joined: January 18, 2002
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 02:35 AM UTC
DJ what parts give you heartburn? That the M4 Shermans all variants where death traps. I tend to agree with him that the Pershing should of been pushed into production faster and maybe it could of been available for D-Day. But I still think our tank losses would of been great, just because of the scale of the war.
Ron C.
Ashtabula, Oh
Ron C.
Ashtabula, Oh
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes, on page 140 of George Forty's "United States Tanks of WWII". It has a photo of a Super Pershing as fitted by the 3rd Armored Division. The Super Pershing consisted of a new 90mm main gun of an even higher muzzle velocity and added cutup 80mm armor plate from a Panther tank to the mantlet and front hull. Two large coil springs were mounted above the turret to compensate for the weight of the new T15E1 gun. Only one was produced and it never saw combat....And I was wondering if there were any photos of the "Super Pershing". I would like to see what that badboy looked like.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I tend to agree. The Pershing was not the end all be all of the heavy tanks. It would have been better protected against enemy tanks, but still could be killed by a Panther or Tiger. We would have had less of them than we did of the Sherman.I tend to agree with him that the Pershing should of been pushed into production faster and maybe it could of been available for D-Day. But I still think our tank losses would of been great, just because of the scale of the war.
generalzod
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
Armorama: 2,495 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:44 AM UTC
DJ I believe Mr Cooper was just stating his views of the war The Sherman was a good tank but I feel our men deserved better At least they could've had better firepower like the 17lber I feel those sherman crewmen were very brave going up against the panthers and tigers I just wonder if the allies woul've won the war if the Germans woul've matched us in tank production All this is just my humble opinion I don't mean to start a flame war
Chad Oh i do remember seeing those Accurate Armour British Armored cars DJ I just don't believe in spending $100 or more for a kit
Chad Oh i do remember seeing those Accurate Armour British Armored cars DJ I just don't believe in spending $100 or more for a kit
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:12 AM UTC
Uh-Oh......not the Sherman debate again?
Ya know, one of the few good things about 'old age' is you're supposed to become a little smarter....soooooo.
" The Sherman tank is the greatest tank ever produced and we should have had Gen,
Patton cloned, and had all his clones man each one of them. That way the Second
World War would have been over in just a few days! "
O.K., O.K., just kidding.....whew!, had to get that out of my system.....thanks all :-)
Ya know, one of the few good things about 'old age' is you're supposed to become a little smarter....soooooo.
" The Sherman tank is the greatest tank ever produced and we should have had Gen,
Patton cloned, and had all his clones man each one of them. That way the Second
World War would have been over in just a few days! "
O.K., O.K., just kidding.....whew!, had to get that out of my system.....thanks all :-)
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:16 AM UTC
Just a suggestion Jim. I think it would be a great idea if you could track Mr. Belton down through his publisher and invite him to one of our 'Chat Sessions'.
Now that would be interesting.
Now that would be interesting.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 08:48 AM UTC
Sorry to interrupt the M4 discussion :-)
Hey Kencelot - see what happens when you Bitch really loud?!?
Got my VLS Corp flyer in the mail this afternoon. CzechMaster is releasing a full-resin M19 40mm GMC as well as the M41 Gorilla HMC. VLS is listing both at $112.50 dollars.
Man - somebody start whining about M29 Weasels again!
Gunnie
Hey Kencelot - see what happens when you Bitch really loud?!?
Got my VLS Corp flyer in the mail this afternoon. CzechMaster is releasing a full-resin M19 40mm GMC as well as the M41 Gorilla HMC. VLS is listing both at $112.50 dollars.
Man - somebody start whining about M29 Weasels again!
Gunnie
RufusLeeking
Joined: January 18, 2002
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:24 AM UTC
Hey Tread...now that's a good idea, what do you think he wants ($) for a speaking engagement?
Ron C.
Ashtabula, Oh
Ron C.
Ashtabula, Oh
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:20 PM UTC
Gunnie, now I'm gonna bitch even LOUDER...BECAUSE IT"S RESIN...AND THAT PRICE!! 
Never tried resin before. Besides at that $$ amount I really don't think the Mrs. would agree with me on this one... 
I guess it just goes to show ya, huh?! SOB I'm going to pretend I never read that post....
Never tried resin before.
Besides at that $$ amount I really don't think the Mrs. would agree with me on this one... I guess it just goes to show ya, huh?! SOB I'm going to pretend I never read that post....
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 10:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Gunnie, now I'm gonna bitch even LOUDER...BECAUSE IT"S RESIN...AND THAT PRICE!!
Never tried resin before.
I guess it just goes to show ya, huh?! SOB I'm going to pretend I never read that post....
There's always the outside chance that Skybow or even AFV Club will go for one in plastic. Both of these companies are ambitious enough to do it, just haven't heard a credible rumor in that direction yet...
Gunnie
Armor135
Joined: March 02, 2002
KitMaker: 335 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 03:40 AM UTC
I to would really like to see a M54 5ton truck. This would be really good for some really good guntruck conversions or scratchbuilding from it.
Mike
Mike
Armor135
Joined: March 02, 2002
KitMaker: 335 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 03:44 AM UTC
I to would really like to see the M54 5 ton trucks. I 2 really like building guntrucks, and am almost finished with te Kirin guntruck conversion so when that is finished i'll be working on my web page and will add that to my profile. Another kit i would really like to see is one that DML or Dragon was going to do a few years back which is the Fast Attack Buggy. I know that AEF Designs does one but i've heard that it wasnt that great, and Hobby Fan does one for about $120 but hey i dont think i'll be spending that much on a model when i can buy 4-5 kits for that much,
Mike
Mike
puyallup7400
Joined: February 25, 2002
KitMaker: 93 posts
Armorama: 62 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 08:24 PM UTC
Ok, make it through 14 pages of this thread.
The Goat!!!!!! Real POS. Dealt with one in the mid-70’s. LOUD, that wonderful 3 cylinder diesel engine. Ours routinely threw the middle driver side wheel. Got to love the spare solution….NONE. Had a prop bar that replaced the middle wheel. If you had a flat, remove the middle wheel and replace the flat one. Also had a problem of crimping the metal brake line, it ran over the top of the rear axle, if you hit a bump too hard. Memories.
The Jeep Commando pick PU would be the old M-700 series of 5/4t trucks. Had a M-715 ‘cracker box’ ambulance back then. Remember practicing to load patients onto the PU bed too, back at Ft. Sam Houston in the early 70’s
Agree with a nice M-54 kit or conversion.
ADATS? How about the system mounted on a M-109 chassis? Thought they looked cool.
How about a Karl Morser transported on two Tiger I chassis? Used similar transport supports as for rail transport. Saw it long, long, long time ago. Can’t even remember if it was a drawing or photo, most likely a drawing. Always thought it would be awesome in 1/35.
Dave
The Goat!!!!!! Real POS. Dealt with one in the mid-70’s. LOUD, that wonderful 3 cylinder diesel engine. Ours routinely threw the middle driver side wheel. Got to love the spare solution….NONE. Had a prop bar that replaced the middle wheel. If you had a flat, remove the middle wheel and replace the flat one. Also had a problem of crimping the metal brake line, it ran over the top of the rear axle, if you hit a bump too hard. Memories.
The Jeep Commando pick PU would be the old M-700 series of 5/4t trucks. Had a M-715 ‘cracker box’ ambulance back then. Remember practicing to load patients onto the PU bed too, back at Ft. Sam Houston in the early 70’s
Agree with a nice M-54 kit or conversion.
ADATS? How about the system mounted on a M-109 chassis? Thought they looked cool.
How about a Karl Morser transported on two Tiger I chassis? Used similar transport supports as for rail transport. Saw it long, long, long time ago. Can’t even remember if it was a drawing or photo, most likely a drawing. Always thought it would be awesome in 1/35.
Dave
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 09:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
... Another kit i would really like to see is one that DML or Dragon was going to do a few years back which is the Fast Attack Buggy. I know that AEF Designs does one but i've heard that it wasnt that great, and Hobby Fan does one for about $120 but hey i dont think i'll be spending that much on a model when i can buy 4-5 kits for that much,
Mike
Interesting suggestion Mike. Would that be similar to the BA 64 one-man light armored car?
Anyone remember that one?
Tread.
BTW, a warm welcome to the best armour site on the web!
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 10:06 PM UTC
Quoted Text
...How about a Karl Morser transported on two Tiger I chassis? Used similar transport supports as for rail transport. Saw it long, long, long time ago. Can’t even remember if it was a drawing or photo, most likely a drawing. Always thought it would be awesome in 1/35.
Dave
Another group of great suggestions and personal input from a new member! Glad you found the site, and welcome aboard. Look forward to your participation in the future Puyallup7400.
Speaking of the Moser unit you mention above, it reminds me of the experimental unit that incorporated, I believe four (4), Tiger chassis' and was disguised ( :-) ) as a HOUSE, if you can believe that!?!
Rob... Kenc', either of you know of that one?
Chappy_ju87
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 146 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 12:54 AM UTC
I would like to see a decent company (Tamiya, Hasegawa) do a 1/48 DeHavilland Venom....I know its not a tank but I still would like to build one
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 07:49 PM UTC
Modelers of the Universe---the world needs a Duplex Drive Sherman kit.
DJ
DJ
RufusLeeking
Joined: January 18, 2002
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 07:54 PM UTC
DJ, I would agree with you, but I don't know what a duplex drive sherman is.
Ron C.
Ashtabula, Oh
Ron C.
Ashtabula, Oh
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 08:22 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Change that frown to a smile Ron and click here: http://www.kithobbyist.com/AFVInteriors/dd/dd1.html DJ, I would agree with you, but I don't know what a duplex drive sherman is.
RufusLeeking
Joined: January 18, 2002
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 08:43 PM UTC
:-) Tanks Rob, Yes that would make an interesting kit. In 1/35th scale the curtain thing could be made out of real fabric. Seen those Shermans before never new what they were called. Tanks again.
Ron C.
Ashtabula, Oh
Ron C.
Ashtabula, Oh
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 09:29 PM UTC
DJ seems pretty anxious to get an amphibious tank made. May be we should get him a model of a battleship and let him slap a set of tracks on the side 
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 10:23 PM UTC
A big thank you for the DD link Rob. You know, after all the reading I've done on the subject of the D-Day landings, including the rather woefull tales of the DD's, I've never seen a picture of the apparatus fully inflated and deployed. Holy Cow! Seeing the pictures kind of helps me understand and answer some of my own questions, and also raises some more like;
How in the BLAZES did those guys navigate?
Were they given an experimental drug that gave them X-Ray vision?
Did Hobart build a big enough target for the germans to shoot at?
And many others....
Apparently, they had done their homework in regard to the water displacement theory as far as it applied to the 'floatation' of the mass. But didn't burn any midnight candles addressing the 'locomotion' aspect of the endeavor.
Tread.
How in the BLAZES did those guys navigate?
Were they given an experimental drug that gave them X-Ray vision?
Did Hobart build a big enough target for the germans to shoot at?
And many others....
Apparently, they had done their homework in regard to the water displacement theory as far as it applied to the 'floatation' of the mass. But didn't burn any midnight candles addressing the 'locomotion' aspect of the endeavor.
Tread.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 10:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Much like the tank does on land when the driver is buttoned up. The TC is the eyes for the driver and in the case of a sea-borne DD, he also had steering control with a tiller.How in the BLAZES did those guys navigate?
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 10:39 PM UTC
Quoted Text
DJ seems pretty anxious to get an amphibious tank made. May be we should get him a model of a battleship and let him slap a set of tracks on the side
Rob--Holy Battleships Batman! What an idea. The fine fellow who proposed putting 106mm RR on a truck should respond to this suggestion. He has a much more creative mind that I.
DJ
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