Hi Neal,
When I have been building the Panzer 1 and 2 I have noticed that the floor plate actually sits on brackets speced from the floor of the hull. This was quite evident on my panzer 1 build:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/163760&ord=&page=3
The Germans liked to have plenty of extra storage space. I have no reason to think that this would not be the same on the Panzer 3 but as you can tell I have spent little time researching it.
So I figure the low floor would be the bottom of the hull which would have no floor plate, the raised hull would have a floor plate.
S
Hosted by Darren Baker
Panzer Mk III Ausf G DAK Build
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 - 01:13 AM UTC
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 - 01:31 AM UTC
Don't know how I missed this one. Looks like you are off to a great start. I'm watching.
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 21, 2012 - 07:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Neal,
When I have been building the Panzer 1 and 2 I have noticed that the floor plate actually sits on brackets speced from the floor of the hull. This was quite evident on my panzer 1 build:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/163760&ord=&page=3
The Germans liked to have plenty of extra storage space. I have no reason to think that this would not be the same on the Panzer 3 but as you can tell I have spent little time researching it.
So I figure the low floor would be the bottom of the hull which would have no floor plate, the raised hull would have a floor plate.
S
Steven, your work is second to none...I can only wish...
Unfortunately, the modelling budget has restraints, so I'm not in the position I wish I was to purchase all the media on each build. I have to be selective, specially since Mason (whom I think is a better builder than I now) seems to want funds to his upgrades as well. With that being said, I am hoping to commit to that kind of investment on my next build. This one was a (very) affordable investment....and knowing that it is an old kit, figured I would try to better my skills on the scratch building as much as I can.
I am very grateful for your assistance and direction...both Mason (who watches this thread too) and I are taking the constructiveness and sucking it in...so many thanks.
Here's a better shot. As you can see, I tried to simulate separate floor plates with gaps by cutting the "plates" separately and gluing them to the floor. Not much of height elevation as it should be...
You will notice a mod I was forced to adding behind the driver seat base..when cutting that section our from the resin piece, I slipped and shattered what was supposed to be there into many pieces.
Also, I replaced the one brake housing hose as it broke off as well.
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 21, 2012 - 11:09 AM UTC
Hi Neal. Good progress. Interiors are a great idea for letting loose and attempting new techniques, etc. As the view is limited, it will all be good enough. I like what you´ve done so far, anf have noted the issues have .. I have some panzer IIIs/StuG IIIs as well for my future.
Thanks a million for the PDFs Neal. They´re appreciated very much. I´ll have a search this weekend to see if I have any suitable photos for you!
Thanks a million for the PDFs Neal. They´re appreciated very much. I´ll have a search this weekend to see if I have any suitable photos for you!
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 21, 2012 - 10:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Neal. Good progress. Interiors are a great idea for letting loose and attempting new techniques, etc. As the view is limited, it will all be good enough. I like what you´ve done so far, anf have noted the issues have .. I have some panzer IIIs/StuG IIIs as well for my future.
Thanks a million for the PDFs Neal. They´re appreciated very much. I´ll have a search this weekend to see if I have any suitable photos for you!
Thanks Frank...any help is well appreciated. In fact, Mason spent sometime yesterday trying to track down helpful pictures and found this one. Apparently it is from a real Pz. III.
I put it to use before bed last night and started constructing the "cage" that surrounds the brake housing hose from Mason's leftover PE sprue pieces....I'll get pics of that later today when the sun rises.
I also started the drive arms and interconnecting linkage (not sure what they are really called) with cut pieces of PE sprue and wire.
I also noted from this pic that the gauge panel is not angled as the Verlinden instruction suggest...and other builds have it placed. Unfortunately, mine is well glued on....
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 - 05:09 AM UTC
here are those pics. I was able to get a better pic that shows the tread plate. If I were to do it again, I think I would cut the floor plates, place the tread plate material onto the plates and install on top of some spacers to separate the tread plate sections from the hull floor.
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 - 01:52 PM UTC
the drive arms (?) and linkage
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 - 01:15 AM UTC
Dear Neil,
Good progress,
I would not worry too much about the spacing between the hull floor and the tread plates the spacing looks about right.
I like the drivers steering arms and they will add lots of detail when within the tank. Take another look at the pics, the spring is not connected to the arms in the way that you suggested, the spring is part of the gearbox/control mechanism. All I would do if I were you is to add two linkages (one for each arm) and place them so that they are in the correct aproximate position that they would have been on the Panzer 3.
The linkages are similar to the ones that I made for the Panzer 2 project. Dont worry about not linking the arms to anything, once the hull is installed you will not be able to see them anyway.
One thing that must be tackled is the gear selector, verlinden have done a really bad job with this and it needs attention and detailing.
S
Good progress,
I would not worry too much about the spacing between the hull floor and the tread plates the spacing looks about right.
I like the drivers steering arms and they will add lots of detail when within the tank. Take another look at the pics, the spring is not connected to the arms in the way that you suggested, the spring is part of the gearbox/control mechanism. All I would do if I were you is to add two linkages (one for each arm) and place them so that they are in the correct aproximate position that they would have been on the Panzer 3.
The linkages are similar to the ones that I made for the Panzer 2 project. Dont worry about not linking the arms to anything, once the hull is installed you will not be able to see them anyway.
One thing that must be tackled is the gear selector, verlinden have done a really bad job with this and it needs attention and detailing.
S
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 - 07:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Dear Neil,
Good progress,
I would not worry too much about the spacing between the hull floor and the tread plates the spacing looks about right.
I like the drivers steering arms and they will add lots of detail when within the tank. Take another look at the pics, the spring is not connected to the arms in the way that you suggested, the spring is part of the gearbox/control mechanism. All I would do if I were you is to add two linkages (one for each arm) and place them so that they are in the correct aproximate position that they would have been on the Panzer 3.
The linkages are similar to the ones that I made for the Panzer 2 project. Dont worry about not linking the arms to anything, once the hull is installed you will not be able to see them anyway.
One thing that must be tackled is the gear selector, verlinden have done a really bad job with this and it needs attention and detailing.
S
Steven...good catch!
Getting old I guess...so I cut out the spring/linkage and am replacing with just the linkage arm. I am also going to tackle the linkage arm that crosses over the gear box and attaches to the springs...got that already started.
I remember your work with the gear selector...so, it cut off the Verlinden "piece" and have wire bracket and shift arm underway.
Once I get them glued in, I'll take a pic and post it.
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 - 02:21 PM UTC
Some of the tweaking done. The Verlinden kit didn't have 1 of the wall supports (second part #24), so I made one. I did the same foe the one between the brake housing and "cage".
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 - 08:51 PM UTC
Great, its really getting there, remember each of the steering arms had a link to the front of the tank, its not clear in the pic but its there so you will also need to add a wire for the left arm too.
Does the Verlinden kit come with a Radio, or chairs ? Aber do a really super radio kit which could help !
S
Does the Verlinden kit come with a Radio, or chairs ? Aber do a really super radio kit which could help !
S
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 04:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Great, its really getting there, remember each of the steering arms had a link to the front of the tank, its not clear in the pic but its there so you will also need to add a wire for the left arm too.
Does the Verlinden kit come with a Radio, or chairs ? Aber do a really super radio kit which could help !
S
Got that one in Steven...thanks!
The Verlinden came with seats...but not sure if the cabinet in front of the radio operators seat base is the radio. I had to move it lower than where it should be to fit in under the hull top.
I figured I'd get the detail up front done before moving on to the seats.
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 05:38 AM UTC
I really really dislike Verlinden, yep you are right that box near the Radio operators chair is the radio, you would not know it as it looks like those little safes that you get in a hotel room.
Unfortunaly its only one of the radios, the Germans normally installed two in their tanks a sender and a reciever, the second radio is located ontop of the gearbox.
Reference's
Two general images of a Panzer 3 interior set up and engine. I saved these on a old hard drive years ago and cannot remember where they came from !
Interior of a Panzer 3 L, this will help later although the tank is not completed
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/96873
Some lovely pics of a Panzer 3 Turret
http://www.armortek.co.uk/Forum3b/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2119
and some greaat shots of the radio racks and other equipment from a Panzer 3 at Bovington Tank Museum
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1305650099/Bovington+Pz.3+interior+colour-
Pic copyright Mr Nick Morgan
And last but not least a Aber upgrade set fot the radio's these are great ! Even of you do not decide to purchase them they will assist many here in wiring up their radios.Have a look at the PDF its really really detailed !
http://aber.net.pl/detal/desc/german_tank_radio_set_fu_2___fu_5_1013401/
I hope this helps
S
Unfortunaly its only one of the radios, the Germans normally installed two in their tanks a sender and a reciever, the second radio is located ontop of the gearbox.
Reference's
Two general images of a Panzer 3 interior set up and engine. I saved these on a old hard drive years ago and cannot remember where they came from !
Interior of a Panzer 3 L, this will help later although the tank is not completed
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/96873
Some lovely pics of a Panzer 3 Turret
http://www.armortek.co.uk/Forum3b/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2119
and some greaat shots of the radio racks and other equipment from a Panzer 3 at Bovington Tank Museum
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1305650099/Bovington+Pz.3+interior+colour-
Pic copyright Mr Nick Morgan
And last but not least a Aber upgrade set fot the radio's these are great ! Even of you do not decide to purchase them they will assist many here in wiring up their radios.Have a look at the PDF its really really detailed !
http://aber.net.pl/detal/desc/german_tank_radio_set_fu_2___fu_5_1013401/
I hope this helps
S
Byrden
Joined: July 12, 2005
KitMaker: 2,233 posts
Armorama: 2,221 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 07:28 AM UTC
About that Pz.3 at Bovington;
the floor, nose and lower walls are painted in the standard blue-grey used on German tank interiors. The upper part was painted at the factory with the standard Ivory. See;
http://byrden.com/panzers/Colours
But because the tank was in Africa, the unit overpainted the Ivory areas with a brown colour - possibly one of their standard tropical paints? You can actually see there how this overpainting was badly done.
The African units did this, I have read, because beams of light from the sun would get into the tank and create areas that were so bright they ruined the crew's vision and made other equipment hard to see.
It would be nice to analyse that tank, but unfortunately Bovington have now repainted the interior.
David
the floor, nose and lower walls are painted in the standard blue-grey used on German tank interiors. The upper part was painted at the factory with the standard Ivory. See;
http://byrden.com/panzers/Colours
But because the tank was in Africa, the unit overpainted the Ivory areas with a brown colour - possibly one of their standard tropical paints? You can actually see there how this overpainting was badly done.
The African units did this, I have read, because beams of light from the sun would get into the tank and create areas that were so bright they ruined the crew's vision and made other equipment hard to see.
It would be nice to analyse that tank, but unfortunately Bovington have now repainted the interior.
David
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 08:06 AM UTC
the drawings, pic and Bovington link is great...many thanks!
I dug through our stash here remembering that I had ordered Mason the Verlinden German Radio set...which he didn't use on his Tiger since his interior had one (doh!)...so, I'm going to see if I can use that for the second (forgotten) set that sits on the transmission housing. If it doesn't work out..Aber here I come!
BTW Steven, which company, in your opinion, makes the best detailing kits? Aber?
I dug through our stash here remembering that I had ordered Mason the Verlinden German Radio set...which he didn't use on his Tiger since his interior had one (doh!)...so, I'm going to see if I can use that for the second (forgotten) set that sits on the transmission housing. If it doesn't work out..Aber here I come!
BTW Steven, which company, in your opinion, makes the best detailing kits? Aber?
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 08:19 AM UTC
Dear Neal,
You may have a problem using the Tiger radios, there were three of them and I believe they were slightly different models.
Aber is the one that I have most used, I have a little experience with Griffon building the 20mm magazines for my Panzer 2 and they seem to be first rate (I have a hyper kit for a model in my unbuilt collection) although the metal seems a little thinner than Aber.
At the moment I believe Aber is better, mainly because they have a larger range, although Griffon is slightly cheaper and very very good.
David that into about the Panzer 3 is very interesting
You may have a problem using the Tiger radios, there were three of them and I believe they were slightly different models.
Aber is the one that I have most used, I have a little experience with Griffon building the 20mm magazines for my Panzer 2 and they seem to be first rate (I have a hyper kit for a model in my unbuilt collection) although the metal seems a little thinner than Aber.
At the moment I believe Aber is better, mainly because they have a larger range, although Griffon is slightly cheaper and very very good.
David that into about the Panzer 3 is very interesting
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 08:53 AM UTC
Steven, here's the Aber Panzer III page...not sure why they reflect a 3 piece combined unit (like the Pz. IV's)...specially since there are only two units in the Bovington III....any idea? If anything, the rack that sits on top of the transmission housing has two slots...is this the answer?
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 10:01 AM UTC
It looks like they have two UKW.e.h. radios and one 10 w.s.h. Both UKW.e.h would go on the gearbox and the 10 w.s.h would go where the hotel safe currently resides.
Oh god wiring this up will be a nightmare, does the kit come with a 12 volt battery ? this is basically a brass box in the Aber kits I can provide the measurements, if you were in the UK I could post one to you !
Just found this site,
http://panzerfaust.ca/AFV%20interiors/germrads.html
Dont get too hung up on radio gear though.
S
Oh god wiring this up will be a nightmare, does the kit come with a 12 volt battery ? this is basically a brass box in the Aber kits I can provide the measurements, if you were in the UK I could post one to you !
Just found this site,
http://panzerfaust.ca/AFV%20interiors/germrads.html
Dont get too hung up on radio gear though.
S
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 11:49 AM UTC
This is the Verlinden German Radio set....looks like it has the correct radios...and power transformers.
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 12:39 PM UTC
Neal here are some pictures I took of the inside of their Panzer III, I hope they are of help.
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 01:26 PM UTC
Darren, those are incredible pictures...thank you...very helpful!
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 08:47 AM UTC
So, getting some time to do something today, I decided to focus on the radio rack that sits on the transmission housing..since that's where we left off. In doing so, I remember seeing the transformer casings with the Verlinden Interior kit. Lo and behold,there WAS the radio rack...doh! It was on page 2 of the instructions....
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 09:22 AM UTC
Here the rack is in. Giving Verlinden some credit, they have the patch cords on the radios, even the side that run up to the hull top for routing. To accommodate the radio rack, I had to cut out a greater section from the hull top, which is fine since I can easily open the visor hatches if I want to.
You will note that I put in the driver's side brake hose where Verlinden stopped and the cage on that side.
You will note that I put in the driver's side brake hose where Verlinden stopped and the cage on that side.
HipKitty
Joined: February 14, 2011
KitMaker: 390 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 - 08:54 AM UTC
PlasticBattle sent over some great pics and information...many thanks! Since getting that info, I've been running wire, conduit, placing junction boxes and even the gyro compass. I'll get pics and post as soon as I can.
django70
Joined: January 26, 2012
KitMaker: 23 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 - 10:28 AM UTC
Neal --
Really good stuff you have here. I am a sucker for interiors and a huge fan of early war armor with Pzkpfw III's and IV's being at the top of my list. Doing it DAK is just the cherry on the cake. I really dig what your doing here, as well as all of the great input from everyone else. Seriously, all those interior shots I see up here are among the best that I've ever seen. A trip to Bovington, adds just one more of many reasons to visit England. Keep up the great work...this is a thread that I will continue to follow with eagerness.
P.S. -- With all due fairness to Verlinden, at least these kits provide an affordable starting point. I paid $25 bucks for mine as a non auction item from Dragon Hobbies EBay shop. I've seen the TWS stuff, and IMHO are wildly overpriced and really soft on the detail.
Good Luck and great modelling --- Lee
Really good stuff you have here. I am a sucker for interiors and a huge fan of early war armor with Pzkpfw III's and IV's being at the top of my list. Doing it DAK is just the cherry on the cake. I really dig what your doing here, as well as all of the great input from everyone else. Seriously, all those interior shots I see up here are among the best that I've ever seen. A trip to Bovington, adds just one more of many reasons to visit England. Keep up the great work...this is a thread that I will continue to follow with eagerness.
P.S. -- With all due fairness to Verlinden, at least these kits provide an affordable starting point. I paid $25 bucks for mine as a non auction item from Dragon Hobbies EBay shop. I've seen the TWS stuff, and IMHO are wildly overpriced and really soft on the detail.
Good Luck and great modelling --- Lee
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.