I'm just wondering how a campaign about all light tanks, or light tracked vehicles that employ tank guns as their main armament, would sound.

Maybe a time from of December first to when the first time a tank was used in an offensive, September 15- part of the Battle of the Somme.

So any light tank or tracked vehicle employing a "tank-type" gun, from any era, any country, any scale... Anything else.

Would this campaign idea conflict with the basic idea of any other campaign? Supposed or running?

Michael;

Hi!

FYI: We just had a "Light Tanks" campaign, ended DEC 2012.

But don't let that dissuade you!

As I am a light tank fan, and there are ever more new kits out for light tanks and small killers based on small tanks and tracked chassis, I would say that 1) there seems plenty of fodder for another LT campaign, and 2) I would jump right in for another go!

Some newer 1/35 full-tracked WWII stuff from styrene makers that could figure in a light tank and small-tank w/ tank gun campaign (along with the scads of great Pz 1 and II, Pz 38(t), CV3 tankette, French H-38/39, USA M5 types, British Mk. VI types, Soviet T-70 tpyes, etc. etc. kits already out on shelves), depending on how you want to spin things, could include...

HobbyBoss -
Pz 1F (OK, a rather swollen and heavily-armored but still very tiny tank!) (2 kits)
Pz 1C
Pz. II-J (another seriously over-weight tiny tank!)
newly-released 4.7cm PaK(t) on the ex-French R-35
Soviet AT-1 tank destroyer (on T-26 chassis)
Soviet T-26 (3 versions)
Hungarian Nimrod anti-air tank
Hungarian Toldi II? M-40

Bronco -
Locust (2 kits)
Pz. 1F
Pz. II-J
new Italian CV3/33 tankette early kit
Chaffee M-24 versions

Dragon-
Pz II-A with interior
Pz 1B with Abwurfvorrichtung (charge-dropper device)
Japanese type 2 Ka-mi with floating pontoons
Japanese type 95 Ha-Go (2 or 3 versions out)
new RSO w/ PaK40 w/ cover (OK, full-tracked, not really armored)

Meng
French FT-17

Mirror Models
Zis-30 AT vehicle

Academy
Pz 35(t)

That's just a few of the newer 1/35 small-tank offerings from bigger styrene companies - and pretty much WWII, at that. NO wheelie things included!

Just to vaguely acknowledge other eras and stuff... there seem to be several newer Trumpeter Chinese and Soviet offerings out or soon coming for the more-modern fan...

I'm sure there are many lurking "out there" who might be ready for another go at "Light tanks"!

Bob

Bob;

Don't forget Tamiya's M3/M5 Stuarts... And I didn't realize a LT campaign ended so recently, due to the fact I haven't even been here for half a year yet (exactly 5 months a member yesterday).

I added that any scale is acceptable; I noticed you had only mentioned 35th.

I'm also concerned about whether this might interfere with the concept of the Rapid Reconnaissance Campaign.

Mike G.;

Hey! I'm only punting a few of the newer 1/35 kits - mostly what I build and am aware of - and more narrowly on my part, mostly Axis WWII stuff. No intent to slight other scales or other eras or other national or other preferences. Just a start at the possibles list!

Yes, there was a recent LT campaign. My point perhaps exactly. I doubt that past campaign would deter anyone from jumping in here - there are lots of LT and small-tank fans and lots of subjects. I definitely think another small-tank campaign would be a go - specially if it's out in 2014. I'm up for it! I only have perhaps 50 or so LT type kits in the stash...

The Rapid Recon campaign is, I think, ending this NOV 07. I doubt this concluding campaign would prevent or deter folks from jumping to another LT campaign next year! In fact, I happen to personally know at least one "rapid Recon hopeful" who never got prperly off the ground for that campaign who wants (craves) a little redemption opportunity!

Cheers!

Bob

Y'know, I could be up for this. Thing is, you don't pick when it would start, the administrators do that. And given what's out there already, I'm betting we wouldn't see a start time 'til mid 2014. Still, count me in if it gets going. I have plenty of candidates in the stash.

Michael

Bob: Haha. I know, I know. Ok, I have one less thing to fret about with this campaign proposal.

Michael: I never ran a campaign here before so I didn't know. And I have proposed the same htype of campaign on another forum where they also said that this might not be able to kick off until early-, mid-, or late-2014. Unfortunately, the urge to build the only light tank kit that I have, which I received very recently as a gift, is strong.

Ah, the urge to build NOW. How well I know it! While the Campaign sounds like a great idea, my advice has to be: If you want to build it, build it! It's a hobby, enjoy!

Michael

Nope. I plan on trying some new techniques (new to me, at least, in the sense that I haven't tried them before or haven't seriously tried them) whenever I'm in these things. So I'm holding off on building it, "it" is a Tamiya M5A1 by the way, until in the campaign starts. I'd like to do this for the campaign. Plus I don't know when or if I'll have another vehicle eligible for this campaign again. I can't buy many kit's because I have no source of income for the time being. So I'm saving this for when the campaigns start.

I think to avoid a drama about what is light and what is feather light, a weight category needs to be set. That way everyone knows what will fit in.




Jeff

Well good on ya then. Let's get some members!

C'mon Armoramaniacs, this is a great campaign idea. Let Mikey know that you're willing to sign up for it!

Michael

Good point Jeff. What do you think it should be? 18-19 tons? That seems to be a good line for WWII armor. Is it a moving target (depending on time frame)? I'm seriously asking, I'm not too informed on this subject.

Michael

Oh crap, I'm hijacking the thread. Sorry Mikey, I just get wound up sometimes when I see an idea I like.

Michael

Also what constitutes a "tank type" gun? Does 20mm count or is 37mm the limit?

Gary raises an interesting question...

I would suggest that this be kept pretty simple and be a "light tank" campaign, where "light tank" is defined by the maker / issuer - regardless of it's gun type or actual size/weight.

Consider the essential early WWII German light tank, Panzer 1 (A and B). It was small - a VW in thin armor. Light - under 8 tons all-up. And armed with 2 7.92mm MG. In similar vein were those tiny Italian CV3 tankettes and Polish tankettes - true "featherweights" in the armored tracked vehicle world in every respect, including MG only armament.

In contrast, there was that Russian pre-war series of T-26 tanks - classified as being light tanks, much larger and much heavier than panzer 1 A or B, and carrying a variety of weapons up to 76mm! And those suety, heavy-weight "infantry" panzer 1 and 2 types... tiny fire-power, small size, very heavy (for their size)...

To base the campaign on weight alone would certainly allow the range of guns seen on "light tanks", but could, depending on the limit set, oddly cut out those queer "Heavy" "infantry" light tanks Panzers I-F and 2-J - both of which were actually very small vehicles armed with a max (on 2-J) of 2cm gun, along with other larger lights, such as the Chaffee types!

On the other hand, classifying by gun size with any bottom limit of say 2cm or greater would exclude many of the early and tiny light tanks and tankettes well known and frequently well-kitted -the true "featherweights of the armor world!

It is of course Mike's call as the proposer of the campaign. I'm only expressing my opinion and suggestion to make it Light Tanks - tracks only, defined as "light tank" (not IFV, APC, etc.) by maker or user - any gun and actual size? Otherwise, it may become both rather restrictive and perhaps oddly confusing and possibly contentious as to what is accepted?

Bob

I have a Panzer II Ausf F,G from Tamiya I could build for this. I like the Idea for the campaign. Always been a heavy tank guy myself but have found the lighter side to be a relaxing change.

Sascha (Ironowl)

Jeff: I guess it would have been a good idea to specify that... So it would be whatever is considered a "light tank."

Gary: Thank you for pointing that out. I never figured that in.

Bob: Very, very good point. I guess we'll go with how each country's military classifies each tank. So we'll go with tanks classified as "light tanks" by each country's militaries. Tankettes included.

So as long as the tanks are classified as "light tanks" by that country's military they are included.

Sounds good to me!

Michael

Ok. All we need now is some more people to participate.

Hey!

Let's pretend that we are in the great Windy City and it's election time!

Just come in and vote early, and vote often! Who needs additional NEW (and LIVING, let's not forget that little detail!) bodies to make up the required numbers? That sort of criterion, having 10+ interested guys, just seems, well, so old-school, over-rated, and stodgy!

Okay, fellas. I was just funnin'. Seriously!

Count me in. I have at least one or 2 (baker's dozens, scores?) of "official light tanks" to choose from!

Bob

I could get into this Campaign as long as we get some details ironed out. So count me in on this one... even though squeezing one in will be difficult!

Yeah, there was a Light Tank Campaign not to long ago but I missed out and my initial choice (a Japanese tank) was deemed a 'Medium', so it didn't fit. So let's plan ahead this time!





Jeff

@Jeff;

You mentioned Japanese tanks and what you might have thought was a "light tank" actually being "officially" (and by this, I'll presume by IJA classification and in Japanese military nomenclature) a "medium tank"... That's one of the real fun bits of having a "light tanks" campaign! It's the definition problem!

The class of objects offically called "Light tanks" has always offered up a real challenge for those interested in simple technical definitions that could ease our modeling world!

Consider that the German Panzer 1A was about 7 tons, armed with 2 MG, and crew of 2, the Japanese Ha-Go type 95 was about 8 tons, armed with a 37mm and 2 MG, and a crew of 3, the Russian T-26 series was about 11 tons, armed with a range of stuff from MG to 76mm, and a crew of 3, and the US M-24 Chaffee was 19 tons, armed with a 75mm and 2+MG, and a crew of 5! All in WWII and all officially classified by developers and primary users as "Light Tank"!

So... this is why I suggest that we COULD keep things simple and broad by including any and all things offically named a light tank. That would make this another official Light Tanks campaign - and I'm happy to jump into that.

But there's certainly at least as much validity for a "featherweight tanks" campaign based around a weight limit "any tracked armored vehicle which weighed no more than... 8 US tons? ... armed with any mounted weapon(s)". I would be more than happy going that way, too. I believe getting more detailed in a definition, say restricting things to both weight AND only certain types and / or size of weapons, would end up being pretty narrowing. But I could see that, too, and maybe even participate from my stash, depending on the restrictions. But that option WOULD be rather more constraining, and may lead to less participation and a smaller campaign.

About those "light" tanks... It raises one of those diverting and likely purely goofy fun questions... Did any official Light Tank ever get adopted and used by some other party with some different, heavier classification? Did a US Chaffee, for instance, become a "Medium tank" in another army?

Bob

So, it's a safe assumption that the Hobby Boss 1/35 Soviet T-26 Light Infantry Tank Mod. 1931 kit is a safe bet as a light tank?

(jest checkin')



Jeff

Jeff: It's probably a very safe bet.

Bob: This campaign will include tanks that are classified as light tanks by their country's respective military.

Sounds fun, count me in whenever it starts.

@Jeff;

Hmmm. That Hobby Boss T-26 mod. 31 sounds like a great light tank - certainly the box says so (being Light - maybe also about being Great, although I cannot say that it did that for sure )! I'm sorta thinking about getting one of those HB T-26 series kits myself (oops! I ought not to say this out loud around home - SWMBO would surely point out that I already have ENOUGH styrene-in-boxes! ). This campaign would certainly be a place and reason to float one!

Bob