Ray
I once bought a full version of Illustrator so I could upgrade to the newest version. This sounds like this is the way to go especially for the vector files you need make the bold letters, numbers and chevrons with sharp edges.
Which month was the appropriately accurate centerfold, perhaps you could show it in situ??? ;o)

Darren, I have no problem with you using any of my photos and other content that I generated here. As you see information about the ASLAV's isn't that straight forward and has been hard to gather so a feature would preserve it for others to add to. Great idea.

Paul, excellent work you're doing with the colours. I have all my paint out making swatches to check against computer screen images and printed images and there is a HUGE range of variation. I have Tamiya ( making the switch to Vallejo) so I'll try your combinations.
Can somebody please tell me if the tan colour on modern ASLAV's is a pink/flesh colour or a real tan.
I read in the recent Tankograd publication that you can tell the base colour (first colour applied) of the cammo pattern by the wheels hub colour. All I've seen is green hubs on ASLAV"s so I wonder if the order the colour is applied contributes to the "look" of the colour? By the amount of tan on these cars I would have thought that they were first painted tan?
The Aussie water cans, are the an emerald green? Anyone have a colour for them as well?
Thanks all
Bill

Bill it's amazing what you can find on the internet

Anyway I've found the paint approval tables for the camo paint below:

http://www.apas.gov.au/PDFs/0165.pdf

It's amazing to read the requirements for weathering and other requirements

It gives the specs as detailed on the MH website above. As I mentioned , the brown / tan is a perfect match for XF-52 and the Black is XF-1.

The only issue is the weathering effect and the lighting in the photos compared to the real thing. eg: the pinky color of the tan.

Edit: There is a fourth color used in Northern Australia (used as the base on those vehicles), it is called Plibara Brown and is used instead of the brown match above (it is US Federal Standard 595a 30109). Perhaps this is the Tan / Brown on those pictures we've seen. Are the ASLAV's overseas from up North or from the Eastern Sea Board ?

I think I'll go for the two above eventually (with some yellow in the Brown) and try mixing for the green as well. I'll wait for you to post the result of your swatch tests when you come to some conclusions.

Regards,

Paul

BTW FYI

XF 52 = Vallejo 874 & 71057
XF 1 = Vallejo 950 & & 71026
XF 5 = Vallejo 71093

PIllbara Brown - there doesn't appear to be an off the shelf match for this.

Not sure on this one either, although the logic of the wheels makes sense.

MH has the same story on it's page on it's description of camo on Australian vehicles:

http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/Research/Camo/OZCAM2.htm

The base on vehicles from the Eastern States is Green and those from up North is Pilbara Brown.

There are a couple of pics / diagrams of Vehicles with appropriately colored Wheel Hubs. So if the Hubs are Green = Green Base, If they're Brown = Brown Base.

Makes sense to me if correct.

Paul

Paul
I made a colour chart of the colours that even resemble anything I could use to mix the colours and either Vallejo Khaki or Sac Bomber green in Model Master are the only ones that resemble out of the bottle colours other than black. No brown/tans, they'll have to be mixed.

And Ray here is the ASLAV now all primed.


A few touch ups and some sanding then we're ready to go to paint.
Thanks for all your help fellas.
Bill

wow that is truly amazing work well done.

Here is the outcome of my little colour mixing

It is crazy to post colour charts because as it has been said many times, every ones monitors are calibrated differently. What I can suggest however is the match that appears the closest for the combination of colours that I have and have tested.
Lower right Model Master Middlestone and Model Master Sac Bomber Green equal parts to one another looks good for the green.
Upper right Vallejo 095 and Vallejo Skintone #71076 equal parts looks ok as well.
For the Tan
Middle left Model Master Skintone light, plus skin tone Warm plus 1 part Skin Tone shadow looks very close.
Vallejo, middle central
Brown Sand # 132 plus 3 parts Skin Tone #71076
I see the tan is very pink especially on the Prime Portal ASLAVs, not so in the new Tankograd publication on Australia's 1st Battalion.
We really need someone from down under to find the ASLAV and make the match.
Thanks for looking
Bill
Scott thanks for the kind words, it looks different now that it's all painted Olive Green.

Good work on the colors Bill.

The model looks a treat too !

I found a finished model by JD King on Aussiemodeller.com, it has been weathered but the colors are interesting to see.

http://www.aussiemodeller.com/pages/Gallery/Trucksnvehicles/King_ASLAV.html

Paul

Wow mate you are going to a lot of effort to get this one right.

No ASLAV has ever been painted using Pilbara Brown, ive only ever seen Land Rovers in that color in Western Australia.

ASLAV's are all the same Tan, Green, Black color, with the base color being tan, most wheel hubs are green. However, replacement parts (So, most items that you can imagine are changed on services or damaged, ie suspension components, shock absorbers, wheels assemblies and hubs) can sometimes be green, not sure on specific color but its the same Canadian color as a LAVIII.

Boggie, its definatly not a pink. To the Mk1 eyeball its 100% Tan. Please dont make it pink!!

Paul
Good find on Aussie modeller, it's a nice looking 25. Strange though that there was no black or green in the camo, just tan and green (looks brown to me).
Ray that's good intel about the wheels being the same colours as the LAV III's. Paul's link to the 25 on Aussie Modeller shows a very tan looking colour, is that the real colour? You are going to have to mix the correct tan colour and tell me what the recipe is. Do any green or tan colours on the chart I did look right?
tan

and this is flesh (not pink).

Regards
Bill

Bill the photos can be over exposed and not show the true color as it is.

Sun light can play tricks on the hue as well.

Anyway I've tried a few on the brown.

XF52 x 6 & XF2 x 4 = Tan / Flesh color

XF52 x 4 & XF2 x 4 = A little lighter

XF52 x 8 & XF 2 X 2 = A little darker

It seems that white is the color to use to lighten XF52 (Dark Yellow does't work and gives a olive / brown result).

EDIT: See my post below: Flat Flesh works better to lighten both XF52 and the green....

I think the solution will be above using the amount of XF2 (white) to scale the XF52.

I like the 50 / 50 or 60 / 40 mix above.

As far as the '25' goes, it does have a camo green & black but the modeller has weathered the model so it is quite toned down.

What do you think ?

Paul

Unfortunatly i cant comment on your color chart mate. I use a projector as a display for my PC and it pretty much looks like different reds to me!! Great for home theatre though.

I dont anticipate being up to the painting stage for a long time yet, so i think Paul is going to be the man to mix some colors and find out what is best first.

I've seen that model that Paul found on aussie modeler, its on display at the School of Armour museum in Victoria. The finish thats done on it is pretty much correct and it looks perfect. I can only hope mine comes out looking like that.

Also, forget what i said about wheel hubs being tan (ive edited to suit). I searched through my photos and all are the same color as the camoflage green. Funny the things you dont notice until you are actually looking for them. But what i said about the replacement part colors still stands.

I won't be painting for a while yet either Ray (still waiting on MH bits), but I've done a bit of experimenting with swatches and finally tried these combo's through my Air brush on some old CD cases.

I think they're pretty damn close

** Camo Green = Tamiya Olive Drab (XF62) 75 % and Tamiya Flat Flesh (XF15) 25 %

** Camo Brown = Tamiya Flat Earth (XF52) 75 % and Tamiya Flat Flesh (XF15) 25%

Give them a try and tell me what you think. Remember there will be some dust to add after painting this will blend the colors together.

Bill do you have these colors ?

Paul

G'day All,
This one will show the colour of replacement parts. Look at the support arms and the wheel hubs.
As for the Tan colour, as it has been said, light, dust and the computer monitor will affect the look of the tan colour. So long as it looks like a light tan than I say it is good to go.

Cheers Jason

Thanks Jason.

Those mixes I tried look pretty good based on your photo above. If anything I'd add a little more XF15 to get the colors to scale (perhaps an extra 10% ?).

How is that ASLAV crew going ?

Paul

G'day Paul,
To tell the truth, the crew is giving me the sh.......s well you get the idea. I had finished the C/C and it was on show at QMHE but I was convinced by one of my old Army mates to lower the figure a bit more into the turret rather than have him up so high.
Depending on how I go tonight, I may post a pic.

Cheers Jason

Yeah I know.

Figures are the hardest thing to do, especially if there's nothing on the market that suits the exact style you want.

I'll be interested to hear what you used as a base torso / body, and what heads you added.

Paul

Scratched. Or I should say sculptured all of it. The body started out as a block of resin and once shaped the rest of the detail was added from Tamyia tape and putty. The CVC was the same. The best part about the helmet is there are no facial features to worry about as the crew wear "Anti Flash" gear. However, a good mate of mine is working on a couple of heads for me for another set of 4 figures to be finished later on.
Arms started out as a wire armature and putty used to block it out. Then the final detail was added again with Tamyia tape and rolled out putty.

Once this crew is done I intend on finishing quite quickly another crew from earlier in the war. They wear the same type of vest (basically) without the "MOLE" straps.


Cheers Jason

I in ref to ASLAV colours.
The three colours Tan (base colour), green and good all black have stay the same since the ASLAV fleet started in the mid 90s. (DO NOT PAINT THE VEHICLE PINK) LOL Even the 6RAR LAV-25 were painted these colours in the same pattern. Some Hubs were tan, they were mostly Phase 2 vehicles. But be-aware there is a fourth colour. This is what a lot of replacement parts are painted in. closest match I have come up with forest green (came up with this match while at work with a tins of MM paints and a new tie rod, got some funny looks from mates). Ray is right it is very, very close to LAVIII paint colour. Jas pic of an suspension station is an excellent example, you can see, the wheel hub, suspension station and prop shaft in this colour. I have seen a lot of complete wheel assemblies come in the MEAO in this fourth colour too. As well as steering rods, shockies and tie rods. If ref to colours between 2CAV and 2/14 ASLAV's. When vehicles leave the factory they are the same, also with the amount of operations on at the moment cars are going back and forward between units. This is due to units vehicles been deployed. So there is no real owner ship of vehicles to units. That is my bit of info of colours.
Brent M

Use Echelon fine decals for most of the decals. (don't forget ASLAV-25 have some different decal placement to ASLAV-PC) and the RWS is the fourth colour

Wow you guys have been busy (night for me day for you) sorry I wasn't there to chime in.
Paul, good on you working hard towards the solution. I will try your formula today and see how it looks, I'm not sure if I have Flat Flesh (XF15) but I think I have the rest.
Jason, your picture really shows the NATO/Forest Green colour of the new parts. Are these parts still being brought in from Canada?The reason I ask is the US and Canadian bolt pattern is different from the Australian pattern. Can't wait to see your crew, I have a place for at least one right now but I hope I'll be building a ASLAV 25 soon and I'll need some more...;o)
Brett, so the ALSAV's are painted overall tan first, that makes sense to me. Good to have you guys from Australia sorting out the colours. I like the idea of different suspension colours to add interest to the undercarriage, makes people look around, draw attention to itself.
So all of you agree that the same paint colour is on all Australian Defence Force vehicles except the Pillbara Brown which was only used on Land Rovers in your western provinces (are they deployed with Pillbara Brown?).
This is great research for all Aussie modellers.
Regards
Bill

It's been fun Bill. I've learnt a little as well obviously.

If you don't have Flat Flesh perhaps you can use another Flesh color (not sure if other brands can be mixed with Tamiya though) ? Vallejo 71074 & Model Master 4722 and Model Master 1709 are pretty much identical.

Using Flesh takes the darkness out of both colors without changing them dramatically. As I mentioned you may like to add a little more Flesh to suit.

Paul

Thanks for the info Brent.

I'll be doing a '25' first and then a PC a little later. I have the Echelon decals coming too.

Wow Jason that's awesome !!

Looking forward to seeing it / them soon.

Now if you cast them in resin you might have a few interested parties.

Cheers,

Paul

I don't know if the all the parts in forest green are from the US or Canada. I can find out next week.

The suspension in the US LAV are different, "except" for their LAV-AD. I was told by a couple Marine's on exchange in 2001 to the US, this one of the reasons why they were looking at withdrawing them, parts have to come from out of their country.
Parts that are u/s would be rebuilt in country, it would cost too much to pay for "new parts" every time a reo tears off a $90,000 suspension station. The fun of an wheeled AFV.

The Pillbara Brown colour can you post a pic of landrover. The SRV and LRPV that arrive in Afgan in early 2007 "these were newly paint and rebuilt" had their green replaced with brown, other vehicles over there also had this "new sceme" mainly MOGs and plate equipment which was different again "tan and brown, no black". so no not all ADF A and B vehicles have the old tan, green and black.
Brent

Brent
Canadians have the LAV III which is based on the Stryker platform then there is the Bison, Coyote and US Lav 25 all different from the LAV III totally. Jason Bobrowich helped me through that learning curve a while back. It would make sense that the Australians would be manufacturing their own parts by now.
I had never heard of the PIllbara Brown before this thread but I have lots of pics of ADF Landies that have a very different camo paint job than anything I've seen here.




Again thanks goes to Frenchy for finding these pictures, we both have thing for these vehicles.
Is the darker brown what everyone is calling Pillbara Brown? What is a Pillabara in Australia?
Thanks guys
PS
Paul I'm off do work on paint now. I think the flesh added to the brown keeps the colour warm instead of adding yellow which makes everything green.
WR

Here ya go Bill.

Pilbara

The second pic of the SRV's still retains the three tone cam by the look of it.





Only the visual aspect of the suspension is the same. The difference is that ours is heavy duty.

Also back to the colour of the spare parts. Not only do the ASLAV's spare bits come in this green but so do a few parts for the M113.

Cheers Jason