Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
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Most common truck in the 'Nam?
trickymissfit
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 05:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Maybe this would help ?





Frenchy



the canvas tops were removed from most trucks before I ever got there due to massive injuries caused by one's head striking the top bows for the canvas top (so they say). Besides everybody loves convertables!
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 07:45 AM UTC
Hi Gary,
Thanks for the little tips on personal weapons. I'll keep it all in mind although there aren't that many revolvers in 1/35th, right?
I'll keep my eyes open for that Crayola clay you mentioned but I dont think they sell it over here. I might be wrong, though.
I agree with your point that most figures dont look ready for combat. Practically every photo from the war has the troops with their pockets bulging & yet figures have theirs almost flat. What would be the best material to use to remedy this? Milliput again?
And yes, I agree, everybody loves a convertible!
Joe.



joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 08:05 AM UTC
Oh, and one more thing. Just going back to the cargo question. You mentioned ammo/rations/beer/etc, but would this be split up? What I mean is would one truck carry ammo, another take the rations & yet another take the beer? Or, would each truck carry various commodities? ie: I could put a pallet of 155 ammo together with boxes of C Rats & some Budweiser crates on the back of my M35A1?
Look forward to your reply.
Joe.
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 09:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I need to know how the metal frame is attached to the cab.



Check your mailbox

H.P.
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 10:28 AM UTC
Thanks Frenchy!
The photos were a great help!
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 11:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Gary,
Thanks for the little tips on personal weapons. I'll keep it all in mind although there aren't that many revolvers in 1/35th, right?
I'll keep my eyes open for that Crayola clay you mentioned but I dont think they sell it over here. I might be wrong, though.
I agree with your point that most figures dont look ready for combat. Practically every photo from the war has the troops with their pockets bulging & yet figures have theirs almost flat. What would be the best material to use to remedy this? Milliput again?
And yes, I agree, everybody loves a convertible!
Joe.






I suppose that stuff would be as good as anything. Just never gave it a lot of thought. As for the clay, I bet art stores near you carry somekind of air hardening art clay. I found the stuff at Hobby Lobby by accident.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 11:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Oh, and one more thing. Just going back to the cargo question. You mentioned ammo/rations/beer/etc, but would this be split up? What I mean is would one truck carry ammo, another take the rations & yet another take the beer? Or, would each truck carry various commodities? ie: I could put a pallet of 155 ammo together with boxes of C Rats & some Budweiser crates on the back of my M35A1?
Look forward to your reply.
Joe.



first of all your probably not gonna see pallots of 155mm ammo in the back of an M35 as long as there's a 5 ton in the area. A pallot of beer or soda was equale to 80 cases! I was the guy with the unlimited ration card, and used to have them load four pallots at a time in the back of a truck (this is the one ace card I always had on the first sargent!). Always wondered who paid for it! You probably wouldn't see much more than a dozen cases of C-Rats in the back of a truck. Most of the time if a company was on C-Rats, it was delivered by air. But you could put a dozen cases of C's and maybe a dozen cases of beer & soda. Maybe a dozen boxes of 7.62 and 5.56. Fill it with sandbags!
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 04:47 PM UTC
Okay, let me see if I've got this straight: The 155mm ammo I will load onto my M54 5ton Cargo truck when I build that along with all other artillery ammo due to the weight issue. Correct so far? Okay, no problem there.
The deuce & a half I can load with up to four pallets of beer or soda (80 cases per pallet-now that's a lot of AM printed sheets) although that is pushing it a bit. Some, but not too many C Rats cases (I'm not sure if there are any other type of Vietnam era ration cases as an AM product). So, I think I will go with your suggestion in your above post: mabye a dozen boxes of each (beer/soda/C Rats) together with 7.62 & 5.56 cases.
How was the load secured? I remember when I was truck driving some years back I would have placed a couple of lengths of timber (mabye 2 1/2 feet long each) at the top, on the outside edges of each pallet, running parallel with the truck & then tied it all down with a length of rope using what we call a dolly knot over here to get it down real tight. Does that make sense? What was the SOP for US drivers in Vietnam?
Now we come to the sandbag question which I really need to clear up here & I'd like you to put me straight on this for any future works that I'm going to do. Am I correct in saying that all trucks in Vietnam had a layer of sandbags throughout, at all times? A layer on the floor of the cab? A layer on the floor of the cargo bed? And then the cargo placed on TOP of the layer of sandbags on the cargo bed? Is that right? And that would be on all trucks ( M35, M54, etc, etc) throughout Vietnam? Good heavens! That's a lot of sandbags! I better get good at making them, eh?
I look forward to your reply, my friend.
Joe.
jakes357
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 06:57 PM UTC
Hey Joe,
Where I was in '66/67 cargo trucks only had the floor of the cab sandbagged.We had one truck that picked up FNG's at the Plieku airstrip with the bed floor sandbagged.S--t trucks would be impossible to load or unload with a sb floor. By early '67 many trucks were being unloaded with forklifts,sling loads by 5t wreckers as more equipment arrived,not to mention a lack of bodies to unload ever increasing convoys from Qwen Nhon.


Banding(steel strip about a half inch wide tightly wrapped vertically with a locking strip crimped in place to prevent the band from loosening) in several places around the pallet kept stuff in place.The troop seats in the up position stopped sideways movement to a minimum.As Gary stated 4 pallets(about 4'x4')would be a good load for a deuce.

Whatever you decide to model could be ok in one place & not another.SOP's varied greatly between units.Photos from a certain time & place are your best bet for accuracy.

Hope this helps,
Jake
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 09:19 PM UTC
Hi Jake,
Thanks for your input buddy. It's always nice to have somebody new to tell us about their experiences. Especially since you're a vet & have first hand experience of actual operations in country.
I know exactly what you mean when you talk about the crimped steel band. In fact, they are still used; certainly in England.
The M35A1 didn't have drop sides so would not have been able to be unloaded with a forklift. So what should I stack my boxes on? Should they be stacked on a pallet ordirectly loaded onto the bed of thew truck?
Thanks guys.
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 05:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Okay, let me see if I've got this straight: The 155mm ammo I will load onto my M54 5ton Cargo truck when I build that along with all other artillery ammo due to the weight issue. Correct so far? Okay, no problem there.
The deuce & a half I can load with up to four pallets of beer or soda (80 cases per pallet-now that's a lot of AM printed sheets) although that is pushing it a bit. Some, but not too many C Rats cases (I'm not sure if there are any other type of Vietnam era ration cases as an AM product). So, I think I will go with your suggestion in your above post: mabye a dozen boxes of each (beer/soda/C Rats) together with 7.62 & 5.56 cases.
How was the load secured? I remember when I was truck driving some years back I would have placed a couple of lengths of timber (mabye 2 1/2 feet long each) at the top, on the outside edges of each pallet, running parallel with the truck & then tied it all down with a length of rope using what we call a dolly knot over here to get it down real tight. Does that make sense? What was the SOP for US drivers in Vietnam?
Now we come to the sandbag question which I really need to clear up here & I'd like you to put me straight on this for any future works that I'm going to do. Am I correct in saying that all trucks in Vietnam had a layer of sandbags throughout, at all times? A layer on the floor of the cab? A layer on the floor of the cargo bed? And then the cargo placed on TOP of the layer of sandbags on the cargo bed? Is that right? And that would be on all trucks ( M35, M54, etc, etc) throughout Vietnam? Good heavens! That's a lot of sandbags! I better get good at making them, eh?
I look forward to your reply, my friend.
Joe.



I never saw anybody sandbag the cargo bed of a truck, but sure as I say this somebody will post a picture. I was refering to the floorboard in the cab itself. As for the cargo being secured, we just layed it back there. You could fill the back of the truck with 105mm ammo boxes, you know. The water tanker would be a nice addition, as it was vital. Maybe a dozen or two cases of C-Rats and the same in beer & soda while towing the water tanker to some fire base along Highway One
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 05:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey Joe,
Where I was in '66/67 cargo trucks only had the floor of the cab sandbagged.We had one truck that picked up FNG's at the Plieku airstrip with the bed floor sandbagged.S--t trucks would be impossible to load or unload with a sb floor. By early '67 many trucks were being unloaded with forklifts,sling loads by 5t wreckers as more equipment arrived,not to mention a lack of bodies to unload ever increasing convoys from Qwen Nhon.


Banding(steel strip about a half inch wide tightly wrapped vertically with a locking strip crimped in place to prevent the band from loosening) in several places around the pallet kept stuff in place.The troop seats in the up position stopped sideways movement to a minimum.As Gary stated 4 pallets(about 4'x4')would be a good load for a deuce.

Whatever you decide to model could be ok in one place & not another.SOP's varied greatly between units.Photos from a certain time & place are your best bet for accuracy.

Hope this helps,
Jake



If your time period is 1968 or later, don't forget the Ballentine Ale rule! You picked up four pallots of beer, and one had tobe Ballentine! They couldn't give that stuff away, and they even refused to buy it on the black market.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 05:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Jake,
Thanks for your input buddy. It's always nice to have somebody new to tell us about their experiences. Especially since you're a vet & have first hand experience of actual operations in country.
I know exactly what you mean when you talk about the crimped steel band. In fact, they are still used; certainly in England.
The M35A1 didn't have drop sides so would not have been able to be unloaded with a forklift. So what should I stack my boxes on? Should they be stacked on a pallet ordirectly loaded onto the bed of thew truck?
Thanks guys.
Joe.



pallots of beer were usually loaded by forklift truck onto the back of the truck, and then pushed forward. But if the load was going into a net later it would be hand loaded onto the net while it was in the back of a truck. Then all you had to do was hook the load to a chopper.
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 05:36 AM UTC
Hi Gary,
Now I've been put straight with regards to the sandbag rule. Thanks buddy! Sandbags on the floor of the cab but not the cargo bed. Right! You know, I thought that sounded a bit strange but I thought I'd better check. That idea of yours with the truck loaded up the way you mentioned whilst towing the water tanker sounds pretty good. I think I'm going to run with that. I just need to invest in the water tanker from Perfect Modelbau in Germany. It's a very nice resin kit but a little pricey, unfortunately. Looks like I'll have to save my pennies for a few weeks, eh?
Joe.
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 07:44 AM UTC
Or mabye I could use that net idea & have a few pallet loads of ballantine loaded into it & title the diorama "Tonkin Gulf bound"!
What do you think?
Joe.
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 08:18 AM UTC
Joe

Talking about available trailer kits, I've just came across this one :


It's made by MMK, and appears to be even more expensive than Perfect Scale M149A2...(MMK also makes one BTW)

Azimut M104 may be a cheaper option :


Frenchy
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 08:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Or mabye I could use that net idea & have a few pallet loads of ballantine loaded into it & title the diorama "Tonkin Gulf bound"!
What do you think?
Joe.



be a waste of time, cause nobody'd drink it! But Bud or Millers in there. Also be sure to add coke in there as well. Most Ballentines ended up being shot at.
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 08:55 AM UTC
Hi Frenchy,
Now that is a lovely piece of kit, isn't it? A bit pricey, certainly, but would look a million dollars on a Vietnam dio, dont you think?
MMK even do an M149 water tank trailer!
Thanks very much indeed for sending this my way!
Joe.
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 10:07 AM UTC
Okay, here's a tool question for you all. Did each truck usually carry a full complement of tools? Were they always located in their correct place in the tool holder under the bed on the port side near the spare wheel? Or did they usually go missing or were they stowed elsewhere on the vehicle?
Thanks in advance.
Joe.
jakes357
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 10:52 AM UTC
Hi Joe,
The OVM (on vehicle material) was usually stored elsewhere as it was highly valued by everyone ie, other drivers,other troops(of all kinds),Vietnamese,just about anyone.

Our 2 1/2 t OVM consisted of shovel,axe,mattock(sometimes referred as a pickaxe),air hose,air chuck,hydraulic jack,tire tools(bar(s)& wrench,a small tool roll(mainly screwdrivers,small wrenches, etc to perform driver maintenance),5 gal fuel can and I'm positive I'm forgeting something(s)In Germany we had enough tire chains to equip 6 to 8 wheels.I did not see them ,again in my AO,but I've seen pics of other units/ other places using them.

Just under the drivers door is a compartment where most of the tools were stored as it had the ability to be locked with a padlock. Obviously the longer tools were supposed to be strapped on the tool rack you refered to.Easily accessable to all.

I find your attention to detail refreshing in this increasingly "whatever" world.Hope this helps.

BTW occasionally unit histories show up on feebay or the 'net that have pics taken during very specific times of the units service.My 25th ID history covers 1OCT41-1OCT66. Many felt it wasn't worth the money at the time,but I knew I might enjoy it one day.

Regards,
Jake
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 03:40 PM UTC
Hi Jake,
Thanks for getting back to me regarding the tool question. Firstly, thanks very much indeed for your observation about my attention to detail. For me, trying to achieve the most accurate representation of a scene is very important to me & now that I've found this website & I'm speaking to guys like yourself then there is no excuse, really. Getting it right is my small way of honouring the guys that were there. Like you I'm not really in to that "whatever" attitude either although when I've completed my model & eventually worked out how to post photos onto these threads here somebody is bound to comment that something or other is inaccurate & that is what I'm trying to avoid!
I've found your latest reply most interesting, Jake! So, I should leave the tool rack empty & place the OVM tools elsewhere on the vehicle. When I was trucking I used to place the longer tools (shovel/tyre wrenches/etc) up by the headboard on the truck bed so mabye I could place these tools there. An air hose, air chuck & hydraulic jack sounds like great additions. You see, I would never have thought to add those items! How long was the air hose? And you'll have to forgive my ignorance here but was is an air chuck that you refer to & what does it do & look like? Did all trucks carry this sort of equipment? Do you know of any manufacturers that make a 1/35th air chuck & hydraulic jack?
Also, your reference to wheel chains is interesting. Were these ever used much in Vietnam?
BTW, I like your ironic use of the term "feebay". Very tongue in cheek. LOL
And you've written a book about the Tropic Lightning. Interesting...
Do you have any photos of your time in country that you might want to share? I'd be very interested in seeing them.
Thanks again, Jake. It's been a pleasure talking with you.
Joe.
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 05:03 PM UTC
Actually, can anybody supply some photographs of the above mentioned tools just so I can visualise what's being talked about here & to get a sense of scale? Photos of air hose, air chuck, tyre wrench, hydraulic jack & anything else that you may consider relevent, please? The photos should be of equipment used by the US during the Vietnam war.
Thanks fellas. All help, as you know, is truly appreciated.
Joe.
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 06:20 PM UTC
Joe

At least you can take a look at the TM I've sent you. It includes an appendix called "Components of end item list" that lists all the tools carried by various M35 variants. The drawings should be helpful

Frenchy
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 06:33 PM UTC
Hi Frenchy,
Okay, I'll check that out later when I get home from work. But photos would be great as they are generally much clearer than the tech. manual & you always provide a first class service when it comes to great photos on this website!
I'd love to see some & it may help other modellers, too, who are following this thread.
Can you help, friend?
Joe.
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 02:20 AM UTC
Here are some OVM and mechanics tools pics (from Webshots). The pictured jack is a 3-ton one as used with the M37 light truck. IIRC the one used with the M35 is a 8-ton jack. I guess it should be visually similar, just bigger

100_3230

Some US general mechanics tools

general mechanics tools USGI

Frenchy