Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
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Most common truck in the 'Nam?
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, May 31, 2010 - 06:24 PM UTC
Powerful winches, eh?
You mentioned the canvas cover for the cab in a previous reply. Was this always left off? So, my model would be more realistic if I left the roof off. Is that right?
Joe.
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, May 31, 2010 - 07:02 PM UTC
Joe

The winch included in AFV Club's kit is missing a Clutch Control lever (from Jim Lewis Nancy guntruck article )


Frenchy
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, May 31, 2010 - 09:47 PM UTC
Short winch operation video on Youtube, showing the Clutch Control lever and a few other details :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxnFB_Lz-ss&feature=player_embedded#!

HTH

Frenchy
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 03:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Powerful winches, eh?
You mentioned the canvas cover for the cab in a previous reply. Was this always left off? So, my model would be more realistic if I left the roof off. Is that right?
Joe.



now this post may be in error, cause everything in it is second and third hand wive's tales. The story goes that with the top on and the metal bows in place; it created a hazard for the driver and passenger in the front if the truck struck a mine. Something about the neck striking the bows and causing severe neck damage. Is it true? I don't know! I sorta always felt that it made exiting the cab a lot easier if something happened. There was no need for the heater in the truck, so you didn't need the top on it to retain the heat (remember it was a very rare thing to see a truck out in the boonies). But anyway who really knows for sure as all the tops were gone long before I got off the plane. Yet even when we got new trucks there was no top or tarp on them now that I think about it.

The winch on a 5 ton is very powerful by itself, and when you use two five tons with a block & tackle, you'd really be surprised to see what you can move. Most of the limitations are from the truck chassis itself moving instead of the object. We often used the "sandbag truck" to winch out another truck loaded with ammo. Weight of the truck is the big factor here. Lastly, I may be wrong, but I'd swear the lever for the winch was on the driver's side (keep in mind we're all thinking back 42 years and some change)

Charlie don't get cigars in his sundry package, but he happy as all get out when he gets a little banana leaf wine
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 04:49 AM UTC
Nice one fellas,
Thanks for the great links, Frenchy. Brilliant!
And thanks for your thoughts here, Gary.
Joe.
ddoyle
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Posted: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 05:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Powerful winches, eh?
You mentioned the canvas cover for the cab in a previous reply. Was this always left off? So, my model would be more realistic if I left the roof off. Is that right?
Joe.



The winch on a 5 ton is very powerful by itself, and when you use two five tons with a block & tackle...Lastly, I may be wrong, but I'd swear the lever for the winch was on the driver's side (keep in mind we're all thinking back 42 years and some change)

Charlie don't get cigars in his sundry package, but he happy as all get out when he gets a little banana leaf wine
gary



Gary,
Your memory isn't all bad - the winch control on the five ton is on the driver's side - and on the 2 1/2 ton its on the passenger's side. If the fellow doing the build needs photos of the 2 1/2 ton winch set up, let me know - I build in 1/1 myself, and have a couple of winch-equipped deuces (and a 5 ton wrecker). Given a couple of days, I can take photos.

Best wishes,
David Doyle
Removed by original poster on 06/01/10 - 17:00:36 (GMT).
ddoyle
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Posted: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 06:01 AM UTC
I'll try again to add some images of 2 1/2 ton trucks in Vietnam. The "captions" are above the photos.

The first one is a Sept 1969 photo of a 1966 M35A2 with winch of the 1st BN, 502 Bde, 101st ABN, taken at Fire Base Birmingham. Note the horizontal exhaust and "standard" mirrors.

[img][img]

The second was taken in July 1970 at Camp Enari. The lead M35A2 has a vertical exhaust, while the second truck has a horizontal exhaust. The second truck is also equipped with a winch, but none of the other trucks in this shot have winches.

[img][img]

The third is a July 1970 photo HHC 65th Eng at FSB Lynch - notice this M35A2 has a vertical exhaust, "west coast" mirrors, and no winch.

[img[img]

the fourth is also a July 1970 photo at FSB Lynch; 1st Bn, 8th arty. This M35A2 has a horizontal exhaust and no winch.

[img][img]

the fifth image, also July 1970 - but now at Can Tho. This is a 1966 M35A2, belonging to 191 Aviation Co, 307 Aviation Bn, 164 Combat Aviation Group, 1st Aviation Brigade. Note it has a horizontal exhaust and the "standard" mirrors. Also worth mentioning are low-mounted position of the headlights. This was the norm on non-winch trucks in the Standard Nomenclature List series G-742 (M35A2) trucks up to about 1969-1970, when all trucks in this family, both winch and non-winch, went to the high mounted position as seen in the 8 Arty photo above. Finally, all these trucks lack the mesh stone guard over the grille - that feature was not introduced until after Vietnam.

[img]
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 06:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Powerful winches, eh?
You mentioned the canvas cover for the cab in a previous reply. Was this always left off? So, my model would be more realistic if I left the roof off. Is that right?
Joe.



The winch on a 5 ton is very powerful by itself, and when you use two five tons with a block & tackle...Lastly, I may be wrong, but I'd swear the lever for the winch was on the driver's side (keep in mind we're all thinking back 42 years and some change)

Charlie don't get cigars in his sundry package, but he happy as all get out when he gets a little banana leaf wine
gary



Gary,
Your memory isn't all bad - the winch control on the five ton is on the driver's side - and on the 2 1/2 ton its on the passenger's side. If the fellow doing the build needs photos of the 2 1/2 ton winch set up, let me know - I build in 1/1 myself, and have a couple of winch-equipped deuces (and a 5 ton wrecker). Given a couple of days, I can take photos.

Best wishes,
David Doyle



my company had three 2 1/2 ton trucks, and the rest were 5 tons. A 5 ton was the truck you grabbed first everytime just because it had better brakes and power steering alone.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 06:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'll try again to add some images of 2 1/2 ton trucks in Vietnam.

[img]http://gallery.kitmaker.net/500/thumbs/Bde_101abn_FB_Birmingham_Sep_1969.jpg" BORDER="0">
/img]



one of the photos looks to be very early (maybe 1965 or 1966), and the others are the first time I ever saw a truck in the field with the top. Most canvas rear tarps were used for something else. Also the only truck I've ever seen without a winch, but if you check the markings, it's out of an aviation unit
gary
ddoyle
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Posted: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 07:09 AM UTC
Here are a couple more;

First in this group is a November 1970 shot of the artillery motorpool of the 25th ID at Cu Chi. The truck at far left is a five ton M54 (fuel tank on driver's side). The truck that is all tarped up is a M35A2 with horizontal exhaust and "M715-style" mirrors - it is winch equipped. The third 6x6 is another M35A2 with horizontal exhaust and no winch.

[img][img]

This M35A2 with winch belonging to the 2nd Platoon, A Company, 404th Signal Battalion was photographed at Phouc Vinh in October 1969. The horizontal exhaust is clearly visible above the tandems (although the exhaust appears to be damaged, its hanging a little low.

[img][img]

A scarce shot of a M36A2 - the extra-long wheelbase cargo version of the G-742 series, with winch. This truck was photogrpahed in May 1970 at Can Tho.

[img][img]

Fourth we have a shot of a 4th Engineer Battalion M35A2 with winch photographed in March 1970. This truck has a horizontal exhaust and almost square M715-style rear view mirrors. It is parked next to a M51A1 or M51A2 5-ton dump truck.

[img][img]

Last we have a January 1966 photo of 1st Cav division troops leaving An Khe aboard M35A1 cargo trucks. The lead truck is a 1961 M35A1 built by the Lansing Division of White (formerly Reo) equipped with a winch, the two following are without winches. All M35A1 trucks had horizontal exhausts and the two in the lead have the M715-style mirrors.

[img][img]

Hope these help!

Best wishes,
David Doyle
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 08:18 AM UTC
Hi David,
Oh wow! These are great pictures! Yes, they do help. A lot!
Thanks.
Joe.
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 06:35 PM UTC
Okay,
The build is going slowly but alright. No major obstacles so far! Eventually, I'll be finished with the chassis & I'll get on to the wheels & tyres. What are the ones in the kit like to use? Can you paint or rub down those vinyl rubber tyres?
I have a set of resin tyres for an M54. Are the tyres on an M54 & M35 the same size?
Joe.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 12:22 AM UTC
The kit tires are good. They can be sanded or painted and weathered to tone them down. The M35 and M54 tires are not the same size. M54 tires are larger.
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 01:15 AM UTC
Joe
The M35 is fitted with 9.00 x 20 tires whereas the M54 is fitted with 11.00 x 20 tires.

HTH

Frenchy
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 02:48 AM UTC
Hi Frenchy,
Thanks for your reply about the tyres. You've answered my question then. No, I cant use my spare M54 tyres! Have you ever used the vinyl tyres provided with model kits like this one? Can you paint & weather them? Silly question, I know, but I'm still very new to this hobby!
Joe.
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 03:23 AM UTC
I think you could use fine grit sandpaper to take the shine off the vinyl tire (instead of painting it), it would improve the look and make the weathering easier..

More tips here :
http://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/20211&page=1

Frenchy
trickymissfit
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 05:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Joe
The M35 is fitted with 9.00 x 20 tires whereas the M54 is fitted with 11.00 x 20 tires.

HTH

Frenchy



the duce and a half used a 10.00-20 sized tire. The five ton size seems right. I can still picture the tires right in front of me as I must have fixed three dozen flats. Quite a few hot days in the motorpool with a hammer and a few wedges breaking down flats (by the way that's when Tom and I became fast friends)
gary
ddoyle
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 07:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Joe
The M35 is fitted with 9.00 x 20 tires whereas the M54 is fitted with 11.00 x 20 tires.

HTH

Frenchy



the duce and a half used a 10.00-20 sized tire. The five ton size seems right. I can still picture the tires right in front of me as I must have fixed three dozen flats. Quite a few hot days in the motorpool with a hammer and a few wedges breaking down flats (by the way that's when Tom and I became fast friends)
gary



Gary,
Respectfully, I think you are mistaken about this. The M35, M35A1, M35A2 all used 9.00-20 tires - I have ten of these trucks in the yard now. Most of the 5 tons used 11.00-20 tires.

But hey, in 30 years there is no chance in hades I can remember what size tire is on the automobile I am driving every day today!

Best wishes,
David Doyle

Some of my projects:

M35A2 with winch

[img][img]

Class 530C tactical fire truck

[img][img]

M45 w/w chassis with 210G1 LeRoi compressor

[img][img]

3000 GPH ERDLator water purification truck on M46A2 chassis - had to sell this one, sadly.

[img][img]

M36A2 without winch

[img][img]

M292A2 Expansible van

[img][img]
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 02:13 PM UTC
Hi fellas,
Thanks Frenchy, for the link. That was very helpful & probably the way I'll tackle this problem myself.
Thanks David, for the great pictures. Some pretty rare vehicles in that lot, I shouldn't think! Also David, check your PM's as I sent you one yesterday!
Thanks again, guys.
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 07:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Joe
The M35 is fitted with 9.00 x 20 tires whereas the M54 is fitted with 11.00 x 20 tires.

HTH

Frenchy



the duce and a half used a 10.00-20 sized tire. The five ton size seems right. I can still picture the tires right in front of me as I must have fixed three dozen flats. Quite a few hot days in the motorpool with a hammer and a few wedges breaking down flats (by the way that's when Tom and I became fast friends)
gary



Gary,
Respectfully, I think you are mistaken about this. The M35, M35A1, M35A2 all used 9.00-20 tires - I have ten of these trucks in the yard now. Most of the 5 tons used 11.00-20 tires.

But hey, in 30 years there is no chance in hades I can remember what size tire is on the automobile I am driving every day today!

Best wishes,
David Doyle

Some of my projects:

M35A2 with winch

[img][img]

Class 530C tactical fire truck

[img][img]

M45 w/w chassis with 210G1 LeRoi compressor

[img][img]

3000 GPH ERDLator water purification truck on M46A2 chassis - had to sell this one, sadly.

[img][img]

M36A2 without winch

[img][img]

M292A2 Expansible van

[img][img]



that one I remember as if it were right in front of me to this very day. I can still picture the 10-20 numbers. Always got the flat tire on the inside dual by the way. When were out on the road a lot along Highway One, flat tires were a daily chore. Another reason I remember those tires so well is that we for the longest time had to rotate the tire upside down when filling it with air. A saftey ring let go on a couple guys, and one of them ended up with a broken arm or wrist. A few days later they got us a cage to put them in. Tobe exact, when you went over to DX tires they only carried two 20 inch sizes. 11.00 and 10.00 sizes.

reason I can remember fixing flats so well is that it was absolutly the least liked detail in my company. Most guys would rather clean four holers that beat on a tire trying break it down. And the tubes we were using were junk right outta the box. More than one time we put a new tube in; only to have it go flat eight hours later without ever being driven on!
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 08:30 PM UTC
Hi guys,
You'll have to excuse my ignorance here but are you saying that the tyres on the M35 ran with inner tubes in? I always thought that these vehicles had steel rimmed tyres & therefore had no need for tubes.
Let me know.
Also, if you guys had to change the tyres on your truck was there a tool box on each truck? If so, where was it best kept & what sort of tools would be found in it?
Joe.
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 08:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

You'll have to excuse my ignorance here but are you saying that the tyres on the M35 ran with inner tubes in? I always thought that these vehicles had steel rimmed tyres & therefore had no need for tubes.
Let me know.



Joe
I think you'll find anything you want to know about military tires (and even more ) here :
http://www.olive-drab.com/archive/od_tm9_2610_200_20_tires.pdf (for older tires) and here http://www.olive-drab.com/archive/od_tm9_2610_200_14_tires.pdf (for newer tires)

Frenchy
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 09:03 PM UTC
Hi Frenchy,
Those sites are great, my friend. You're right - everything that I ever wanted to know about tyres is right there. Thankyou, as always.
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 04:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi guys,
You'll have to excuse my ignorance here but are you saying that the tyres on the M35 ran with inner tubes in? I always thought that these vehicles had steel rimmed tyres & therefore had no need for tubes.
Let me know.
Also, if you guys had to change the tyres on your truck was there a tool box on each truck? If so, where was it best kept & what sort of tools would be found in it?
Joe.



they used tubes in them just like you said! May still do for all I know! As for tool boxes and the jack; I can't remember even where we kept them! Probably under the seat or behind it. I never had to change a flat tire out on the road, and when you did get a flat it was usually in the rear.
gary